Mainstream Religion and the Trinity Myth

[Samuel]

iris89 said:

Part 5 of Documentary on the Book of John Being Anti Trinitarian:


16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. <[ They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world--(See John 5:18,19). This is reiterated here, to pave the way for the prayer which follows (a) ]>

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. <[ Sanctify them--As the former prayer, "Keep them," was "negative," asking protection for them from the poisonous element which surrounded and pressed upon their renewed nature, so this prayer, "Sanctify them," is positive, asking the advancement and completion of their begun sanctification. through--in. thy truth--God's revealed truth, as the medium or element of sanctification; a statement this of immense importance. thy word is truth--(Compare John 15:3, Colossians 1:5, Ephesians 1:13). (a) Here he request that his Father (YHWH) sanctify his followers through his word as Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) clearly shows that he knows that his Father's word is "thy word is truth." (b) ]>

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. <[ As thou hast sent--sentest. me into the world, even so have I also sent them--sent I also them. into the world--As their mission was to carry into effect the purposes of their Master's mission, so our Lord speaks of the authority in both cases as co-ordinate. (a) Once more, Jesus emphases that he was sent by his Father (YHWH), the superior, for a purpose and also emphases that he, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) has sent them into the world to continue with his work in keeping with " And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14 AV) (b) ]>

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. <[ And for their sakes I sanctify--consecrate. myself that they also might--may. be sanctified--consecrated. The only difference between the application of the same term to Christ and the disciples is, as applied to Christ, that it means only to "consecrate"; whereas, in application to the disciples, it means to consecrate with the additional idea of previous sanctification, since nothing but what is holy can be presented as an offering. The whole self-sacrificing work of the disciples appears here as a mere result of the offering of Christ [OLSHAUSEN]. through--in. the truth--Though the article is wanting in the original here, we are not to translate, as in the Margin, "truly sanctified"; for the reference seems plainly to be "the truth" mentioned in John 17:17. (a) ]>

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; <[ Neither pray I for these alone--This very important explanation, uttered in condescension to the hearers and readers of this prayer in all time, is meant not merely of what follows, but of the whole prayer. them also which shall believe--The majority of the best manuscripts read "which believe," all future time being viewed as present, while the present is viewed as past and gone. (a) ]>

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. <[ that they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may be one in us--The indwelling Spirit of the Father and the Son is the one perfect bond of union, knitting up into a living unity, first all believers amongst themselves; next, this unity into one still higher, with the Father and the Son. (Observe, that Christ never mixes Himself up with His disciples as He associates Himself with the Father, but says I in THEM and THEY in US).
that the world may believe that thou hast sent me--sentest me. So the grand impression upon the world at large, that the mission of Christ is divine, is to be made by the unity of His disciples. Of course, then, it must be something that shall be visible or perceptible to the world. What is it, then? Not certainly a merely formal, mechanical unity of ecclesiastical machinery. For as that may, and to a large extent does, exist in both the Western and Eastern churches, with little of the Spirit of Christ, yea much, much with which the Spirit of Christ cannot dwell so instead of convincing the world beyond its own pale of the divinity of the Gospel, it generates infidelity to a large extent within its own bosom. But the Spirit of Christ, illuminating, transforming, and reigning in the hearts of the genuine disciples of Christ, drawing them to each other as members of one family, and prompting them to loving co-operation for the good of the world--this is what, when sufficiently glowing and extended, shall force conviction upon the world that Christianity is divine. Doubtless, the more that differences among Christians disappear--the more they can agree even in minor matters--the impression upon the world may be expected to be greater. But it is not dependent upon this; for living and loving oneness in Christ is sometimes more touchingly seen even amidst and in spite of minor differences, than where no such differences exist to try the strength of their deeper unity. Yet till this living brotherhood in Christ shall show itself strong enough to destroy the sectarianism, selfishness, carnality, and apathy that eat out the heart of Christianity in all the visible sections of it, in vain shall we expect the world to be overawed by it. It is when "the Spirit shall be poured upon us from on high," as a Spirit of truth and love, and upon all parts of the Christian territory alike, melting down differences and heart burnings, kindling astonishment and shame at past unfruitfulness, drawing forth longings of catholic affection, and yearnings over a world lying in wickedness, embodying themselves in palpable forms and active measures--it is then that we may expect the effect here announced to be produced, and then it will be irresistible. Should not Christians ponder these things? Should not the same mind be in them which was also in Christ Jesus about this matter? Should not His prayer be theirs? (a) Here he, the Son, Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves), then he, the Son, continues, " For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me." (John 17:8 AV), showing that his followers would surely know that they were one is purpose, "12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." (Ephesians 4:12-16 AV) and "9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," (Ephesians 3:9-14 AV). These clearly show that Almighty God (YHWH) and Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) although not one in body, are one in purpose, and since the Father has given mankind to the Son for the present time, we should all recognize the Son as the only mediator between God and mankind, " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (1 Timothy 2:5 AV). (b) ]>

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: <[ And the glory which thou gavest--hast given. me I have given them, that they may be one, even as we are one--The last clause shows the meaning of the first. It is not the future glory of the heavenly state, but the secret of that present unity just before spoken of; the glory, therefore, of the indwelling Spirit of Christ; the glory of an accepted state, of a holy character, of every grace. (a) See second comment on John 17:21 above (b) ]>

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. <[ I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in (a) Once more Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) emphasis that his followers should be one in purpose just as he is one in purpose with his Father (YHWH), for more details see second comment on John 17:21 above. (b)]>

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. <[ Father, I will--The majesty of this style of speaking is quite transparent. No petty criticism will be allowed to fritter it away in any but superficial or perverted readers. be with me where I that they may behold my glory which thou hast given Christ regards it as glory enough for us to be admitted to see and gaze for ever upon His glory! This is "the beatific vision"; but it shall be no mere vision, for "we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is" (1 John 3:2). (a) ]>

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. <[ O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee--knew thee not. but I have known thee--knew thee. and these have known--knew. that thou hast sent--sentest me--As before He said "Holy Father," when desiring the display of that perfection on His disciples (John 17:11), so here He styles Him "Righteous Father," because He is appealing to His righteousness or justice, to make a distinction between those two diametrically opposite classes--"the world," on the one hand, which would not "know the Father, though brought so nigh to it in the Son of His love, and, on the other, Himself, who recognized and owned Him, and even His disciples, who owned His mission from the Father. (a) ]>

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. <[ And I have declared--I made known or communicated. thy name--in His past ministry. and will declare it--in yet larger measure, by the gift of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost and through all succeeding ages. that the love wherewith thou hast loved--lovedst. me may be in them, and I in them--This eternal love of the Father, resting first on Christ, is by His Spirit imparted to and takes up its permanent abode in all that believe in Him; and "He abiding in them and they in Him" (John 15:5), they are "one Spirit." "With this lofty thought the Redeemer closes His prayer for His disciples, and in them for His Church through all ages. He has compressed into the last moments given Him for conversation with His own the most sublime and glorious sentiments ever uttered by mortal lips. But hardly has the sound of the last word died away, when He passes with the disciples over the brook Kedron to Gethsemane--and the bitter conflict draws on. The seed of the new world must be sown in Death, that thence Life may spring up" [OLSHAUSEN]. (a)]>

(a) - Brown, David, D.D. "Commentary on John 17". "Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, 1871.
(b) - Iris the Preacher, 2002.

THE FINAL CONFLICT:

But all true followers should strive for a good conscience and seek peace as shown in 1 Peter 3:16, "Having a good conscience: that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ." (AV). Remember, they did likewise to our leader, Jesus (Yeshua), because they did not like the Truths he spoke, John 18:19-23, "The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine. 20 Jesus aanswered him, I spake openly to the world; I even taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. 21 Why askest thou me? Ask them which heard me, what I have said unto them: behold, they know what I said. 22 And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so? 23 Jesus answered him, If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil: but if well, why smitest thou me?" (AV). This is the way of evil doers that can find no real wrong done by the true followers of God (YHWH) and his Son, Jesus (Yeshua) as affirmed at Acts 25:17-19, Therefore, when they were come hither, without any delay on the morrow I sat on the judgment seat, and commanded the man to be brought forth. 18 Against whom when the accusers stood up, they brought none accusation of such things as I supposed: 19 But had certain questions against him of their own superstitution, and of one Jesus, which was dead, whom Paul affirmed to be alive." (AV); and it is likewise today, clearly showing we are living in the time of the end.

Likewise at John 19:11-16, "You would have no authority at all over me', Jesus replied, 'if it had not been granted you from above; and therefore the deeper guilt lies with the man who handed me over to you.' From that moment Pilate tried hard to release him; but the jews kept shouting, 'If you let this man go, you are no friend to Caesar; any man who claims to be a king is defying Caesar." When Pilate heard what they were saying, he brought Jesus out and took his seat on the tribunal at the place known as 'The Pavement' ('Gabbatha' in the language of the Jews). It was the eve of Passover, 'about noon. Pilate said to the Jews, 'Here is your king.' They shouted, 'Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him!' 'Crucify your king?' said Pilate. 'We have no king but Caesar', the Jews replied. Then at last, to satisfy them, he handed Jesus over to be crucified." (NEB). Here clearly we can see the spirit of this world prevailing over individuals that have been misguided by none other than Satan the Devil, just like many that have been deceived today.


He later, after his resurrection by his Father (YHWH) appeared to his disciples as stated at John 20:19-23, and told them many things and especially this, "as the Father sent me, so I send you," clearly showing his Father (YHWH) a superior one had sent him, "Late that Sunday evening, when the disciples were together behind locked doors, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. 'Peace be with you!' he said, and then showed them his hands and his side. So when the disciples saw the Lord, they were filled with joy. Jesus repeated, 'Peace be with you!' and then said, 'As the Father sent me, so I send you.' He then breathed on them, saying, 'Receive the Holy Spirit! If you forgive any man's sins, they stand forgiven; if you pronounce them unforgiven, unforgiven they remain." (NEB)

He later appeared to the Apostles by the Sea of Tiberias and had breakfast an emphasis the need to feed his 'sheep' at John 21:15-17, "After breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, 'Simon son of John, do you love more than all else?' 'Yes, Lord,' he answered, "you know that I love you.' 'Then feed my lambs', he said. A second time he asked, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' 'Yes, Lord, you know I love you.' 'Then tend my sheep.' A third time he said, 'Simon son of John, do you love me?' Peter was hurt that he asked him a third time, 'Do you love me?' 'Lord," he said, 'you know everything; you know I love you. Jesus said, 'Feed my sheep.'" (NEB). Clearly we have seen that the book of John is clearly anti-Trinitarian, and if we want to please God (YHWH) we should not believe in fables and myths that the scripture plainly shows at 1 Timothy 4:7 are nothing but old wives tales, "but refuse profane and old wives' fables. And exercise thyself unto godliness;" (ASV).

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

I'm not following

[Samuel]

iris89 said:

What Are The Differences Between Mainstream Religions and Monotheistic Bible is the Standard Religions?

There has been much contention with respect just what are the REAL differences between mainstream religions and monotheistic Bible is the standard religions. So let's clear the air so to speak and cut right to the chase or basics with respect this question. First, although let's look at the guiding principle for all monotheistic Bible is the standard Christian religions, 2 Timothy 2:15, "Give diligence to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, handling aright the word of truth." (American Standard Version; ASV).

Now let's consider the real and NOT the hyped differences between monotheistic Bible is the standard religions such as the Christedelphians, the Jehovah Witnesses, the IBS, the Church of Bishop Arius (Norge), the Old Brethren, etc. all reject all doctrines accepted by the Council of Nicea of 325 A.D. and the Council of Ephesus of 431 A.D. The Council of Nicea of 325 A.D. was called and followed the bidding of a pagan Roman Emperor, Constantine; Whereas most mainline religions accept all or most of the doctrines spewed forth by this council, the monotheistic Bible is the standard religions accept NONE. Now a quote on this council to give all an understanding about it.

"By the third and fourth centuries, Christians were weary of Pagan persecution. The temptation was to compromise. Besides, the Pagan emperor Constantine needed Christians to salvage his shaky empire. Constantine embraced; howbeit only on his deathbed. However, he saw Christianity as a tool he could use to firm up his shaky empire. To this opportunity for political intrigue, and happy blend of politics and people was the chief triumvirate of Roman gods Jupiter, Juno and Minerva. Jupiter was the principal deity of Roman mythology and Juno was the next highest divinity. Minerva, the "offspring of the brain of Jupiter" was regarded as the "personification of divine thought, the plan of the material universe of which Jupiter was the creator and Juno the representative" (26). Many Pagan ideas, in fact, were incorporated into Christianity. "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it" (*26).

Roman Emperor Constantine needed to make his subjects feel secure if he were to maintain control of the empire; he wanted to rule a unified empire, be it pagan and/or Christian. But first he would have to find a way to end the dispute over the divinity of Jesus-was he a man or God? So he ordered his Christian bishops to meet at Nicaea in 325 A.D. to settle the matter once and for all. To do this, "he made himself the head of the church, and thus the problems of the church became his responsibilities. As a whole the Western Empire with its Roman influence, with some exceptions, had accepted Tertullian and his new theory of the Trinity in the early part of the previous century, but in the East the church adhered more closely to the older formula of baptism in the name of Jesus, or Jesus the Christ. Especially was this true with the Armenians, who specified that baptism "into the death of Christ" was that which alone was essential (*28) .

Now let's see how Constantine got the Trinity. As previously shown, The Roman Empire at this time was being torn apart by religious differences between pagans, mostly Sun God worshippers, and Christianity. Constantine the Emporer was a worshipper of the Unconquered Sun, but he was a very pragmatic individual and saw the need to bring religious unity to his empire. The central doctrine of the pagans was the dogma of a Trinity that they had received from earlier pagans in Babylon (Chaldea). In this, the pagan Emperor, Constantine, saw a possibility for unifying his empire if he could only lead the majority of the Christians to accept a Trinity or a Duality. He knew however that he had to make them think it was their own idea. To this end, he, the Roman emperor Constantine summoned all bishops to Nicaea, about 300, but even though it was the emperor's direction, only a fraction actually attended.

This council went on for a very long time and the emperor worked behind the scene to get support for a Trinity or a Duality. This effort was not completely successful, but finally he got a majority and declared under imperial degree
that this hence forth would be the central doctrinal pillar of the Christian church, which by this time was apostate. Even with this declaration by the emperor himself not all bishops signed the creed. (*29).

So is was the political product of an apostate church, an apostate church that allowed a pagan Roman Emporer, Constantine, to tell it which dogma to accept at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D., and then have it rammed down their throats as blessed dogma by another Roman Emporer, Theodosius, at the Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D. This in direct violation of God's (YHWH's) word found in the Bible " Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (James 4:4 AV), " If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:19 AV).
Their solution was to create a creed making it illegal for anyone to believe Jesus was not the same as God by inventing the notion of a Trinity. This intellectual tower remained in full force for well over a thousand years, until the Reformation. (*29)." [Discourse on Mainstream Religion by Iris the Preacher, for more information see the starting post on the The Endless Dogmatic Scourge of the World thread.].

Most mainline religions accept all or most of the doctrines that came out of this Council and that of Ephesus with the salient ones being:

The Trinity and its concomitant connected celebrations such as Christmas.
That Sunday is the Sabbath whereas God (YHWH) declared Saturday was [note, this has nothing to do with the day of the week religious services are held].
The ever virginity of Mary which clearly goes against Matthew 1:24-25, "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife; 25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS." (ASV).
The genius or worship of the Emperor or the state.
That the Bible is not the sole source of truth.
The Mother of God doctrine of the Council of Ephesus in 431 A.D.
The liturgical year of the apostate church.
The superiority of the Church hierarchy over others.

Now all of the monotheistic Bible is the Standard Christian groups accept only the written word of God (YHWH) as the ultimate standard with special emphasis on: (all from the American Standard Version; ASV).

John 3:17, "For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him." (ASV)

John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (see also 1 Corinthians 15:50).

John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me".

Matthew 6:33, "But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

Matthew 24:14, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come".

1 Corinthians 3:19, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He that taketh the wise in their craftiness:"

1 Peter 1:14-16, "as children of obedience, not fashioning yourselves according to your former lusts in [the time of] your ignorance: 15 but like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves also holy in all manner of living; 16 because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy."

1 Peter 4:3-4, "For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, winebibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries: 4 wherein they think strange that ye run not with [them] into the same excess of riot, speaking evil of [of]: "
Romans 8:14-17, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified with [him]. "
Matthew 28:19-20, "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."
John 6:39-40, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
James 4:11-12, "Speak not one against another, brethren. He that speaketh against a brother, or judgeth his brother, speaketh against the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judgest the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 One [only] is the lawgiver and judge, [even] he who is able to save and to destroy: but who art thou that judgest thy neighbor?"
Matthew 23:13-23, "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter. 14 [Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, even while for a pretence ye make long prayers: therefore ye shall receive greater condemnation.] 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor. 17 Ye fools and blind: for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that hath sanctified the gold? 18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gift that is upon it, he is a debtor. 19 Ye blind: for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? 20 He therefore that sweareth by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. 21 And he that sweareth by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. 22 And he that sweareth by the heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone."
1 John 4:3, "and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the [spirit] of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

Revelation 3:14, "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:
All these monotheistic Bible is the Standard Christian groups reject all the apostate baggage of the Council of Nicea 325 A.D. and the Council of Ephesus of 431 A.D.; whereas, all mainline groups accept most of it. Foremost is the rejection of the Trinity as false doctrine of men, but this in no way means the rejection of the divinity of Jesus (Yeshua). In fact, all these monotheistic Bible is the Standard Christian groups declare this fact and that his Father (YHWH) has given all judging onto his Son, Jesus (Yeshua) as shown by Matthew 25:31-32, "But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: 32 and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats;" (ASV).
In fact, all criticism of these groups is due to what is stated at 1 Peter 4:3-4, "For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, winebibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries: 4 wherein they think strange that ye run not with [them] into the same excess of riot, speaking evil of [of]: " (ASV)
In summary, Isaiah 5:20, says it all, "For the time past may suffice to have wrought the desire of the Gentiles, and to have walked in lasciviousness, lusts, winebibbings, revellings, carousings, and abominable idolatries:" (ASV)
Thus the difference between so called mainstream Christian religions is that asking what doctrine or belief one has is a legitimate question as it depends on what the denomination accepts or rejects of the false doctrines adopted at the Council of Nicea and/or of Ephesus; Whereas, it is a defective question when asked of a monotheistic Bible is the Standard Christian groups for whom the Bible is the only standard. To these groups, one should ask what does the Bible say as this is their only theology. They follow Romans 12:1-2, "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your spiritual service. 2 And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God." (ASV).

[glow=red,2,300]A living sacrifice?! A real person?![/glow]

[iris89]

Hi Samuel

So?

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[Mservetus]

Dear Iris89,
I agree with you main premise and statements but I disagree with you finding the cause of the trinity doctrine in Constantine or greek mythology or any pagan religion. The reason is i think it is unneccesary and unproven, it remains after all is said a conjecture and a very calumnious one , which is highly uncharitable.
I do not think you or i have to go there to prove our point because I have come to it simplt through scripture study and reason alone, thank God. But I do see how and why the early church came to that conclusion and what led the there without seeing any direct connection between pagan worship and this, regardless of Constantine.
Other than that it is nice to talk to you.

[iris89]

Hi Everyone

To learn more about the trinity, go to,

religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=trinity

Your Friend in Christ Iris89