The Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Ac

[iris89]

Islam Is Against Freedom of Conscience Yet Wants It For Themselves:

INTRODUCTION:

When members of Islam move to Australia, Canada, England, France, Spain, US, Denmark, etc. they want religious freedom, they demand it, but do they want to grant the same basic human right of conscience to others? NO, they definitely do not. This denial is shown to be the case from ancient times. In fact, this denial was actually the 'trigger' for the Crusades that Islam so blames the so called Christians for, but fail to state that they brought the Crusades on themselves by their actions. How so? Let's look at the facts from history.

<<" A turning point in western attitudes towards the east came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid caliph of Cairo, al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, had the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem destroyed. His successor permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it under stringent circumstances, and pilgrimage was again permitted, but many stories began to be circulated in the West about the cruelty of Muslims toward Christian pilgrims; these stories then played an important role in the development of the crusades later in the century."[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>.

Yet today they demand the right to the Mosque that sits on Hebrew land, the site of their former temple and to which they NEVER received permission or title from the Hebrew owners of the land. <<"Caliph Omar (contemporary of Muhammad, who had died a few years earlier), ordered it cleaned and performed prayer there. According to some sources, he also ordered a mosque to be constructed at the spot, upon which site the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built several decades later." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>. So we can see their intention to take what was NOT theirs.

ANCIENT EXAMPLES OF DENIAL OF EQUALITY AND BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS TO OTHERS:

Of course this practice of running 'ram-shod' over the basic human rights of others is standard operating procedures (SOP) officials of Islam. Let's look at early history of Yemen as follows, <<"There are two opposing schools of thought about historic Jewish-Muslim relations in Yemen. The pessimistic view holds that Jews were subjected to harsh treatment by the repressive religious state, controlled by fanatical Zaydi imams whose sway extended from the environs of the capital city of Sana' a to the central highlands".[source - (Brauer 1934; Schechtman 1961) per www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1690 ]>>.

And,

<<"Throughout the Islamic world, the Qur'an (9, 29) and the early Caliphs, specifically Omar I, imposed restrictions upon non-Muslims labeled Dhimmis: "Until they pay tribute ...[they must] be humbled." The restrictions involved dress and public behavior, house and synagogue/ church construction, and many other facets of life. (Tritton 1970) Although Dhimmiswere not allowed to own land, they were often subject to the kharaj or "property" tax. More significant, the Dhimmis were systematically forced to pay a poll tax, the jizya, the price of being "a protected minority."[source - (Brauer 1934; Schechtman 1961)per www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1690 ]>>. So we can see the do NOT give equal freedom of religion, basic human right to freedom of conscience and equality.

WAS THIS DENIAL OF EQUAL FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE JUST AN ANCIENT THING?

Modern examples of forcing their beliefs on others:

Let's look at a case in Nigeria where they are forcing their Islamic Sariah religious law on others,
<<" KANO, Nigeria (Reuters) - A court in the northern Nigerian city of Kano has fined 45 motorcycle taxi riders for transporting women, in violation of a new rule to comply with Islamic Sharia law, a court official said on Friday. The ban on women passengers, brought in last year to make Kano state traffic laws compatible with Sharia, has caused controversy in the city, which is predominantly Muslim but has a sizable Christian community. Hisbah committees, or volunteers who help uphold Sharia, have clashed with motorcycle taxi riders caught with women passengers. Women are supposed to ride in special motorised..."[source - Reuters]>>.

And,

<<" Sudan: Criticising Islam & death threat over a woman
On September 26th members of Islamic government of Sudan issued a fatwa on best-selling author Kola Boof, a Sudanese woman's writer who lives in California. The details of the fatwa: Kola Boof has been found guilty of "Blasphemy and Treason" Ms. Boof is to be beheaded. The matter was ratified by the following: Hassan Turabi (National Islamic Front), Ali Muhammad Taha (NIF), Sharif al-Tuhami (NIF) Tanzim Wasti (London's Sudan Committee), Saad Faqih and Mohammed Sobieh.
Kola Boof points out that she has not been Muslim since around 10 and that the men issuing the fatwa are not qualified to do so. Ms. Boof states that she has been receiving "death messages" and warnings to "shut up" from Sudanese government officials by telephone since February 2002." [source - Associated Press]>>.

And,

<<"So now we know the facts, straight from the Supreme Court, that a group of Lebanese Muslim gang rapists from south-western Sydney hunted their victims on the basis of their ethnicity and subjected them to hours of degrading, dehumanising torture. The young women, and girls as young as 14, were "very *friendly* persons" and "Aussie pigs", the rapists said. So now that some of the perpetrators are in jail, will those people who cried racism and media "sensationalism" hang their heads in shame? Hardly. ...

Even last week, with the conviction of two brothers for their part in the gang rape of Miss D, who was 16 when she was held at gunpoint in a Greenacre park, there were media outlets that downplayed the story and air-brushed race from it. Yet the victims have been crying out for the truth to be told. In court on Friday, one victim gave another a card on which she had written you're an Australian," the rapists told her during the five-hour attack.It's just so inconvenient of the victims to insist on telling the truth. "I looked in his eyes. I had never seen such indifference," one 18-year-old victim, codenamed Miss C, told the court, remembering one of the 14 men who called her "Aussie pig", gang raped her 25 times over a six-hour period in Bankstown and Chullora, and then turned a hose on her. "I'm going to f*** you Leb style," he said.
Fourteen gang rapists have been convicted, or pleaded guilty, thanks to the courage of seven victims who testified for days in court as their tormentors smirked nearby, the men's families threatened them and defence lawyers suggested they had enjoyed the rapes. "They're very brave, very strong and very courageous young women," said Salvation Army Major Joyce Harmer, who held the hands of many of the victims through the trials. "They knew this was something they had to do."

These were racist crimes. They were hate crimes. The rapists chose their victims on the basis of race. That fact is crucial to this story. If the perpetrators had been Anglo-Celtic Australians, the furore would have been enormous. No newspaper would have left out that fact and you can bet the guilt and shame would have been spread far and wide." [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]>>.

And,

And from the FrontPageMagazine.com - December 15, 2005, <<"In Australia this week amidst anger over an Islamic man's rape conviction and the bashing of two Aussie life savers, working-class locals erupted in a rampage of anger and brawling in some of the worst racial riots in decades. But there is more to the story than is being repeated in the American mainstream media....
Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began. And during his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the Pakistani man began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because she had the temerity to shake her head at his testimony.

But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an oath on the Qur'an, the man - known only as MSK - told the court he had committed four attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say "no." They were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and therefore, the rapist proclaimed: "I'm not doing anything wrong."
MSK is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three younger brothers in a gang rape of two other young Sydney girls in 2002. In his own defense, he argued that his cultural background, was responsible for his crimes." [source - the FrontPageMagazine.com - December 15, 2005]>>.

Denial of Basic Human Right To Freedom of Conscience:

Worshippers of false god(s) believe in absurdities and do not know the difference between treason against a nation and basic human right to change one's religion if one finds something wrong with his/her present religion. Of course irrational reasoning and irrational acts by worshippers of false god(s) is nothing new. It was first recorded over three thousand years ago in 1 Kings 18:21-29, "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. 22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men. 23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: 24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken. 25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under. 26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made. 27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. 28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them. 29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). Notice verses 28 and 29 as some of their descendants are still doing this today. Why? They worship the old middle eastern Moon god who in all likelihood is just the present day evolution of the false god Elijah had to deal with the followers of.

Today, worshippers of false gods still behave and think irrationally, here is a statement by one of them that clearly shows how they mix things up.

<<" Again.... if they Abandon Islam and join in a rebellion to destroy the government or join a GROUP that is working to destroy or cause instability in the government.. yes... they committed treason and should be executed accounting to Shariah. This is Shariah Law. Western powers like the USA also have the same punishment for those who do this.">> [source - Changing One's Religion Is Not Treason Against the State by Iris the Preacher 2006]

And,

From the Associated Press the fact that members of Islam even wanted to execute a man in modern times for exercising his basic human right of freedom of conscience, <<"<<" KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man facing a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor said Wednesday.

Abdul Rahman, 41, has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country's Islamic laws. His trial started last week and he confessed to becoming a Christian 16 years ago. If convicted, he could be executed.
But prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari said questions have been raised about his mental fitness.
"We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person," he told The Associated Press.

Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination.

"Doctors must examine him," he said. "If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him. He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped."
It was not immediately clear when he would be examined or when the trial would resume. Authorities have barred attempts by the AP to see Rahman and he is not believed to have a lawyer.
A Western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate - both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter - said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case because of the reaction it has caused." [source - Associated Press]>>. So we can see their standard SOP in operation even in modern times.

Islam's SOP is the source of much of the strife of today:

Let's see what the Weekend Australian (newspaper) had to say on the matter, <<" Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other?
Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. (December 16, 2005) How can we tolerate such intolerance?" [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]>>. Says it all.

ISLAMIC SARAIA LAW IS USED AS AN EXCUSE TO DENY BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS TO OTHERS:

First, let's look at an example partially dealt with previously:

<<" BBC ^ | 12-13-2005 | Ado Sale Kankiya
Nigerian women ignore bike ban Women say there is no public transport alternative Women in the northern Nigerian state of Kano are ignoring a ban stopping them travelling on public motorbike taxis. On Monday religious authorities began implementing the ban passed earlier this year. In accordance with Sharia law, men and women are not allowed to travel together on public transport. The women say there are not enough public transport alternatives in the state that adopted Sharia law in 2000. The BBC's Ado Sale Kankiya in the city of Kano says some 9,000 religious marshals are on the streets to..."[source - BBC - 12-13-2005]>>. Now no one argues with Islam with respect to applying their rights denying law to their own members, but when they apply it to none members it is a denial of basic human rights. But Islam's SOP is to force their beliefs on others just as the apostate (counterfeit) Christian Catholic Church tried to do with their Inquisitions, genocides against the Cathers, burning of none believers at the stake, etc. Both of course are equally wrong and a denial of basic human rights of conscience and freedom.

Why this crime against humanity, the denial of basic human right of conscience? The laws of Sharia assume that the highest principle of governance is justice, not freedom. Justice, in this case, means that decisions are made by religious authorities in consonance with the teachings of the Koran. There are no checks on the power of these authorities, as their mandate is given as coming straight from God. Thus Sharia forbids the notion of rule by the people, with laws being made by the people and their elected representatives, i.e., freedom.

In contrast, Western civilization holds freedom as the highest principle of governance. Government is by the people, for the people. Laws are made by the people and their elected representatives. Western civilization, and especially American civilization, is based on the concept of preserving freedom by limiting powers through a system of checks and balances. Laws are, deliberately, man made, not taken as coming from God, although religious (Judeo-Christian) teachings are influential in guiding legislation.

As one man said as reported by BBC, <<" I have been wrestling with the rights and wrongs of attitudes expressed by Muslim spokesmen, both here in the United States and around the world, since the World Trade Center attack last year. I am not a Muslim, or an expert on Islam, but I have been trying to understand how the world looks from an "Islamic" or "Arabic" perspective. I've wanted to understand why so much public commentary by Muslim spokesmen sounds wrong to my Western ears. I've concluded that much of the Islamic world is doing a poor job of facing up to some grim realities, and doing a good job of blaming everyone else (especially the US and Israel) for their self-inflicted injuries."[Source - BBC]>>.

Sharia Law has proven a failure for nations that have tried to implement it:

<<"...Acknowledge that every nation of significance that has embraced Islam as the state religion, and has tried to govern according to the laws of Sharia, is a miserable failure. Egypt, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia: These are totalitarian nations that repress their own citizens every bit as savagely as did the former Soviet Union. Citizens in these countries have no freedom, no rights, and no hope for a better life. They cannot speak freely. They can be arrested, imprisoned, tortured, or killed for any reason. The governing authorities can even order mass slaughter of their own people at will (witness Syria)." [ source - BBC]>>.

Recognized as wrong by open minded Muslims:

<<" Doctor Wafa Sultan in an interview on al-Jazeera said, "The clash we are witnessing is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations; but a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21 st. century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality.

She made it clear that it is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. In other words, it is a clash between human rights and rights of women, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on the other hand as witnessed recently in Nigeria and Iran.

It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts and use Shariah Law as the justificanion, and those who treat them like human beings."[source - re-run of an Al-Jazeera program]>>.

And,

A legal brief in 'The Palm Beach Post' of Monday, March 20, 2006 shows how backward anti-freedom thinking results in serious injustices and the removal of freedom that every human has the right to, freedom of religion of his/her choice. It reported on an Afgan man, 41-year old Abdul Rahman who was put on trial for converting to Christianity. How absurd and not in keeping with the basic principles of freedom. The account said, "Abdul Rahman is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death on a charge of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country's Islamic laws (Shariah Law), a judge said Sunday."

The newspaper made the point that this trial highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take here four years after the ouster of the Islamic fundamentalist. This case highlights two things, Shariah Law is a farce and is being used to strip individuals of basic human rights guaranteed to them in the constitutions of most civilized nations. Strange, in civilized lands, Muslims demand their right to freedom of religion, but in their own lands, many seek to deny it to others. [reference - The Palm Beach Post of March 20, 2006].

CONCLUSION:

All should consider a law of human freedom written long before the unjust Shariah Law by a religious freedom loving king, Cyrus the Great:

The first Charter of Human Rights written 2500 years ago
I am Kourosh (Cyrus), great king,...Now that I put the crown of the kingdom of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions on the head with the help of Ahura, I announce that I will respect the traditions, customs and religions of the nations of my empire and never let any of my governors and subordinates look down on or insult them while I am alive. ...I will impose my monarchy on no nation. Each is free to accept it, and if any one of them rejects it, I never resolve on war to reign. While I am the king...I will never let anyone oppress others,... I will never let anyone take possession of movable and landed properties of the others by force or without compensation. While I am alive, I will prevent unpaid, forced labour. Today, I announce that everyone is free to choose a religion....No one could be penalised for his or her relatives' faults...[source - an archaeological find of a royal decree by Cyrus the Great over 2,500 years ago].

Some members of Islam do NOT want to admit that Shariah Law is a Farce based on actual events that happen because of it and the women downing culture it creates. They say show it to me in the Quran or Hadith knowing full well you are not an expert on either, rather than being honest and open and realizing that a law must be judged by what it produces and NOT obscure writing and wording. In fact, most writing about law in the news and in abstracts deals with its implementation and results not wording. But this fact is put aside by those who do not want to deal with reality; to wit, a law is either good or bad based on whether it provides true justice and/or does NOT. The failing of most laws is in their wording and implementation, and all law makers should be required to state exactly what the purpose of the law is and if that purpose can be meant in another way, it should of course be allowed.

When a law produces BAD results, it is a BAD law regardless of its wording. Many laws start out good, but as situations change, they fail to change to meet the new situation and/or keep up with scientific development. A classic example of this is the New Your City Building Code that required lead pipe from the street main to the residence/building being served which may have been good long ago, but not after it was discovered that lead in drinking water was harmful to humans.

So it is both hypocritical and a farce when they go to other countries and demand equal rights, but deny them to others in their own countries. Let's start calling a spade a spade.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Face Reality - Hezbollah Started It And Bears Total Responsibility:

INTRODUCTION:

The Middle East is in turmoil today, 07/15/2006. Why? Because Hezbollah does NOT want peace, but wants atrocities and war. Hezbollah is is an organization made up of members of Islam, a religion that claims to be a religion of peace. Yet Hezbollah only promotes hate and continues to promote strive and destroy world tranquility and clearly seeks to impede world peace.

It uses Lebanon as a base of operations to make unprovoked attacks on Israel and to kidnap her citizens. Unfortunately, Lebanon has permitted this wrong doing, and therefore must share in the unpleasant results - too bad as Beirut was once the 'jewel' of the Middle East, a wonderful city.

Now one may ask why does Lebanon want to be an accessory-after-the-fact in Hezbollah's crimes against humanity, and reap the justified whirlwind from Israel for doing so. Maybe they enjoy having punishment brought on themselves and get some other weird perverted enjoyment from it or something. But is this the way affairs should be conducted by individuals that claim to belong to a peaceful religion? All need to think about this and come up with an answer.

THE BIBLE'S VIEW:

Jesus (Yeshua), the Isa, said at Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); and the Apostle Peter wrote at 1 Peter 3:8-15, "Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. 13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? 14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" (AV).

Now as can readily be seen Hezbollah and its supporters [also members of Islam] are NOT desirous of peace although belonging to a religion that claims to be a religion of peace. Obviously, if they were considered as doing wrong by Islam, then Islam should excommunicate or interdict them from Islam; they have NOT done so.

Of course many members of Islam reject what the Bible says, but is this reasonable considering that their Quran like the Book of Mormon is nothing but a knockoff of the Bible? Now the well known rule of precedence is that the earlier document shall have precedence over the later that used information from it just as the earlier granting of land title takes precedence in any title search or action at law over the later. Many overlook the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman as was the Quran and the Book of Mormon. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.

So as can readily be seen, if one is open minded and honest with himself, what is written in the Bible takes precedence over any other guide book that mankind may have.

ALL SHOULD SEEK PEACE AND BE PEACEMAKERS:

Just at the Bible says at Matthew 5:9, "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." (AV), clearly showing that all should seek to be peacemakers and NOT war makers such as is Hezbollah and their evil backers. But as we all well know, many in the middle east can not stand tranquility and peace and when ever things have been relatively peaceful for awhile, they commit some type of atrocity that will bring on a confrontation since their objective is to destroy peace and tranquility. This clearly shows per 1 John 5:19 that their unseen leader is Satan the Devil, "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." (AV); and also by 2 Corinthians 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (AV).

Actions by evil men and the groups perplexes most of mankind and this is shown clearly in the Bible at Luke 21:10, "Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:" (AV) by the prophecy about our time by none other than Jesus (Yeshua), the Isa; and at 2 Timothy 3:1-5, "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (AV). 2 Timothy 3:1-5 clearly is speaking about groups like Hezbollah that claim to belong to a religion of peace along with their backers, but do nothing but ferment war, not peace.

Now let''s look at the truth by means of the world news:

THE FACTS FROM THE WORLD NEWS BY ASSOCIATED PRESS:

The Circumstances:

In an article by Kevin Frayer, AP [07/15/2006]the following salient items appeared.
<<" Neither side showed signs of backing down from the conflict, which erupted Wednesday when Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. As civilian deaths mounted, diplomatic efforts to end the crisis had yet to get off the ground.>>"

Correct Venue Needed:

In an emotional televised speech, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora called on the United Nations to broker an immediate cease-fire to end Israel's land, sea and air offensive against Lebanon.">>

Of course a cease-fire is NOT the proper venue because it implies resumption at a future date of violence which is uncalled for. The proper venue would be a treaty of peace in which both nations agree to respect the others right to peace and tranquility and to not permit military groups to remain on their territory, such as Hezbollah that are dedicated to fermenting violence and promoting war. Also, it would call for the return of the kidnapped individuals, turning over the war criminals that committed the kidnapping and killed at least eight individuals during commission of this war crime designed to disturb world peace and tranquility; to wit, the perpetrators should be tried by the international war crimes court.

Even Saudi Arabia Recognizes Who Started The Mess:

<<" President Bush, on a trip to Russia, said it was up to Hezbollah "to lay down its arms and to stop attacking." Arab foreign ministers gathered in Cairo but fell into squabbling after moderate states, led by Saudi Arabia, denounced Hezbollah for starting the fight.">>

And,

<<" Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal called the group's actions "unexpected, inappropriate and irresponsible," telling his counterparts: "These acts will pull the whole region back to years ago, and we cannot simply accept them."

Supporting his stance were representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, delegates said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.">>

Now why does the Arab world not unite and punish Hezbollah and turn over the war criminals who started the mess and bare total responsibility for all the death and destruction to the international war crimes court and give back Israel its citizens who were kidnapped?

World Leaders On The Subject:

<<""In my judgment, the best way to stop the violence is to understand why the violence occurred in the first place," Bush said. "And that's because Hezbollah has been launching rocket attacks out of Lebanon into Israel and because Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers."

Putin said it was unacceptable to try to reach political goals through abductions and strikes against an independent state. "In this context we consider Israel's concerns to be justified," he said. At the same time, he said, "the use of force should be balanced."">>

Clearly they recognize that Hezbollah and their backers are sole responsible for all that is occurring. In fact, the Russian leader Putin clearly said, <<" it was unacceptable to try to reach political goals through abductions and strikes against an independent state.">>

Two Little too Late by Government of Lebanon?:

<<" In an emotional televised speech, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad ...
He also pledged to reassert government authority all over Lebanese territory - suggesting the possibility of deploying the Lebanese army in the south, which Hezbollah effectively controls. That would meet a repeated U.N. and U.S. demand.">>

He has known of this dysfunctional situation for a long time and failed to take action even though he has been asked repeatedly by the U.N. and others. So he can NOT claim lack of responsibility for the present mess. Its like the authorities continually warning a property owner about a dangerous uncovered well on his property, and then one day a child falling in it and his wondering why he is being held responsible. But what does the Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad do? Basically he cries crocodile tears to the U.N. to do something because of his own failure to heed repeated warnings - how absurd.

Even now, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad, has NOT attempted to arrest the criminals and return their kidnapped victims and find their organization financially responsibility for all damages done in Israel and his own country. Something must be wrong with him, what I do NOT know.

CONCLUSION:

Level heads among those belonging to a religion that claims to be a religion of peace need to prevail. They need to arrange an objective meeting of all directly involved with the view to getting wrongs undone and coming to agreement on a treaty of peace that goes much further than a mere cessation of belligerent acts. Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and the Palestine squatters need to start working together on the regions problems such as developing the regions economy, the setting up of a regional electrical grid along with Jordan, peaceful commerce between them, joint task force to eliminate terrorist, none permitting of militias and other irregular military groups, and setting up joint fact finding groups. Lebanon is a beautiful country that if they joined with Israel in setting up a joint economic region could soon become a regional economic powerhouse and create many jobs, not just for their respective citizens, but for the Palestine squatters and the Jordanians and the Syrians. The region needs economic development and jobs, not war and infrastructure destroying activity.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Hypocrisy Of Religions That Claim to Be Peaceful But Permit Their Members to Promote War:

INTRODUCTION:

Both major religions, apostate (counterfeit) Christians that claim to be footstep followers of Christ but are NOT, and Islam both claim to be religions of peace. However, history tells a very different story. The apostate (counterfeit) Christians have promoted Crusades [actually on provocation by Islam.]; genocides such as of the Cathers; burnings at the stake by those they did not like and/or believed differently; 30 year war of religion; enslavement of others such as in Goa, India, and the new world; promotion of wars; etc.

The other, Islam, has done just as bad such as attacking and enslaving most of Spain for six centuries; attacking the Byzantine Empire and stealing all of its lands; an attack on France with a view of taking Paris, the sacking/distruction by Fatimid caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and preventing pilgrimages to Jerusalem; the moving on and wrongly occupying the tribal lands of their brother tribe, the Hebrews, of land given to them for perpetuity by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham; the kidnapping of soldiers of their brother tribe with the sole intent of fomenting strive and destroying world tranquility; the bombing of trains/subways in India, Spain, and London for the same purpose; the 9/11 destruction of the World Trade Center; etc.

Now it should be obvious to all that none of these acts these religions have permitted their members to carry out are in any way in line with their claim to be peaceful religions. Now these acts were/are NOT isolated acts, but part of a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) from the top religious leaders. To wit, Popes, bishops, priest, Caliphs, Sultans, Ayatollahs, Kings, Emirs, dictators, presidents, prime ministers, generals, etc.

Let's look at the wrong in a summarized form.

SUMMARIZED WRONG - SIMPLIEST FORM:

Both of these groups by failing to be peaceful religions as they WRONGLY claim have permitted distress to be caused to others [fill in the name]. When the expected resistance/counter offense/defense occurs from the ones being caused distress by their action and/or inaction they either caused directly and/or permitted by them to their members proves distressful to them, they want it lifted. Yet, they make no move or suggestion with respect to lifting the distress their victim is experiencing; what outright hypocrisy.

Peace and tranquility can never exist while groups claiming FALSELY to be peaceful religions, but are NOT, are permitted to exist. This earth can only have peace and tranquility when these groups are finally eliminated, as promised, by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. Why is this? Well the Bible clearly shows that Satan the Devil is the ruler of this present wicked system per 1 John 5:19, "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

This will of course occur at the conclusion of this system of things per John 12:31, "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." (AV).

Some may view this as taking too long given the current warlike condition of the earth, but Matthew 24:14 says, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (AV). And Matthew 24:37-39 clearly shows this end will come suddenly, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (AV).

Now the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael is NOT slow as some count slowness, but is merciful wanting all to be given a chance as shown at 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (AV); and Isaiah 30:18, "And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him." (AV).

SOLUTION TO WORLD DISTRESS NOT FROM MEN:

Many look to men to solve world problems, but this can NOT happen as mankind has never learned to value right over wrong, and to peacefully sit together and resolve problems. In fact, with all their world organizations designed to do this, they only make them into one ups-man forms.

We can see this at the moment with respect to the unconscionable affair between Lebanon and Israel. An attack on Israel occurs from Lebanon by an armed Islamic army that Lebanon permits in their country. In this unprovoked attack, eight Israel soldiers are killed and two are kidnapped. Lebanon clearly abdicates its responsibility to bring to justice the wrong doers or to have the kidnapped victims returned.

Israel does the expected and counter attacks, what else would you expect, when Lebanon does NOT ACCEPT its responsibility to make amends, punish the wrong doers it has permitted to use its country to stage attacks on Israel, nor to have the kidnapped victim returned as any right thinking government would do. In effect, they permit the fuse to be and are totally responsible for all that results.

Instead of assuming their responsibility, they go to the United Nations and ask to have a truce called, and try to put the responsibility on Israel. Their filing with the United Nations makes no reference to righting the original wrong or returning the kidnapped victims back to Israel. To wit, they do NOT want to do justice. Why? Because they care NOT about the distress the original aggression they permitted caused to Israel, nor to the continuing distress it is causing.

Clearly Lebanon is the WRONG, not only for not relieving the distress caused Israel, their neighbor, but for proposing a cease fire that solves NOTHING. If they were responsible and caring, they would have done two things, (1) immediately seek to right the wrong and make sure it NEVER occurred again, (2) started negotiating for the right venue, a treaty of peace and friendship with Israel.

Of course, the Bible covered this long ago when it showed that the kingdom of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, not men, would succeed in bring peace at Daniel 2:44, "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." (AV); and Matthew 6:10 in Jesus' (Yeshua's) prayer to his father, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael.

So what should men be doing now? Well to find out, look at Psalms 2:10-12, "Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." (AV).

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Bogus Claims of Those Against World Tranquility With Respect Who Is a Hebrew (Jew):

INTRODUCTION:

Many Ishmaelites, the greedy ones, want to destroy world peace and tranquility due to their greed for land that is NOT theirs. The Ishmaelites control over 98 percent of the middle east, and some are so greedy they do not want their brother tribe, the Hebrews, even to have the less than two (2) percent of the land that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael gave to them in perpetuity.

To this end they harass their brother tribe and destroy the peace and tranquility of the world due to their greed. To stir up violence and destroy world tranquility they throw rockets at the brother tribe's nation and kidnap his soldiers peacefully manning their border post within the land that belongs to them.

Now the question is why do the greedy Ishmaelites have so much hate for their brother tribe, the Hebrews, and so much desire to destroy world tranquility; whereas, they should have a love for their brother tribe, the Hebrews and should want peace? At present, many of these greedy Ishmaleites, I am referring only to the greedy ones and not to all Ishmaelites of which I am one, falsely claim they have no jobs/employment and blame it on their brother tribe, the Hebrews; whereas, the blame actually belongs on the greedy Ishmaleites who would rather spend their time hating and their money on implements of violence instead using their time and resources for the setting up businesses and factories to provide employment. Something is wrong with them for letting greed destroy common sense and a chance to progress.

THE BIG QUESTION:

Why are they so greedy and why do they love violence and putting others down instead of tranquility and friendly relationships in keeping with what Jesus (Yeshua) said at Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); and Matthew 5:43, " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy." (AV); and Matthew 19:19, "Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and Matthew 22:39, " And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and Matthew 12:31, "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (AV); and Romans 13:9, "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); Galatians 5:14, " For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and James 2:8, "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" (AV).

Now why are you so full of hate and a desire for violence and so against world tranquility and peace?

As one Australian newspaper noted, <<"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. (December 16, 2005) How can we tolerate such intolerance?" [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]>>. Says it all.

THEY CAN NOT ACCEPT TRUTH SO THEY REJECT THE BIBLE:

Since they can NOT accept the truth, they reject the word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, and even some of them have the nerve to call it obsolete. Let's look at the facts, Of course many members of Islam reject what the Bible says, but is this reasonable considering that their Quran like the Book of Mormon is nothing but a knockoff of the Bible? Now the well known rule of precedence is that the earlier document shall have precedence over the later that used information from it just as the earlier granting of land title takes precedence in any title search or action at law over the later. Many overlook the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman as was the Quran and the Book of Mormon. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.

OBFUSCIATION OF THE FACTS AND OUTRIGHT TOTAL GREED:

Outright Greed:

One such obfuscating individual even said the following, <<"I am just thinking how to put the fact that I want my descendants to invade the United States and force all current day Americans into small encampments with little to no food or water, into a nice little verse. Hmmm "Thou shalt murderest the Americans, for the Land is yours....from Utah to Texas...because I say so....who cares about the current day inhabitants; do I look like I care? Punk *** squatters best recognize....Women to children, they shalt leave their homes...I mean my homes, no wait your homes feel me holmes? ...And if they dont leave, then bomb their education centers, places of worship, and their power stations...Ensure that the brutality far surpasses that which was once perpertrated upon ourselves, in fact use the Spanish Inquisition as constant excuse for your murdering, raping and plundering of their wait I mean, your land...It has been written.". Remember those words everyone, for 2,000 years later they can be used as a documented piece of evidence that proves that my descendants are the rightful owners of the United States.">> clearly showing their love of violence and extreme greed. The above clearly shows their love of violence and greed to grab the land of hother.

This clearly shows how they love to obfuscate and distort the issue of whose land it is, but this has always been the Standard Operating Principle (SOP) of the greedy Ishmaelites. Let's look at the facts, as previously shown by an Australian newspaper, 95 percent of the violence and destruction we see in the world so far in 2006 has been caused by greedy Ishmaelites, such things as train bombings, their different sects bombing each other's mosques and killing each others members, suicide bombers, road side bombs, bus bombings, kidnapping of other peoples soldiers to ignite violence, going irrationally insane over stupid cartoons, etc.

Of course this has been their SOP from the beginning as shown by what they did in the Eighth Century as one example, In 711 the Visigothic were ruling in Spain and in no way attacking Islam, yet Islam attacked them without any real provocation. Yes, of course they claimed they had provocation, i.e., they claimed that last Visigoth king, Roderick had seduced the young Florinda, daughter of Julian, Visigothic governor of Ceuta in north Africa an apostate (counterfeit) Christian and they were out to avenge this; but clearly two things stand out, First, it was none of their business, Second, there is no evidence that this ever occurred.

Now Let's look at proof that the greedy Ishmaleites were just out to grab land that belonged to others, <<" In 711 CE Tariq ibn Ziyad, the governor of Tangiers, landed in Gibraltar with around 10,000 men, mostly Berbers (indigenous North Africans). He had some of Roderick's Visigoth rivals as allies. In the same or following year in the Cadiz province, Roderick's army was decimated and he is thought to have drowned as he fled. The Visigothic survivors fled to the north of Spain, and within a few years, the Muslims had taken over the rest of the Iberian Peninsula bar a few areas in the Asturian Mountains bordering France.
[source - www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/0075_popup9.htm]

As can easily be seen, the greedy Ishmaelites, note this refers only to the greedy Ishmaelites and not all Ishmaelites, were out to swipe land NOT belonging to them and used Tariq ibn Ziyad, a Muslim general, to accomplish this terrible wrong. This of course is not being peaceful in any way.

Obfuscation by the Greedy Ishmaelites:

They try to obfuscate the issue which is they want the entire middle east of which they now have over 98 percent for themselves, and do not want their brother tribe to have even less than two (2) percent of it even though this very small amount was given to them by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael - what unabated GREED. They make irrelevant claims such as European Jews (Hebrews) are not really Hebrews and have no right to the land that the creator of all there is gave to the Hebrews, and other bogus claims to 'self justify' their greed. But facts do not agree with their claims. Let's look at what one pastor wrote showing the facts from the Bible, <<" The nation of Israel, or the descendants of Jacob multiplied in Egypt into a great and mighty nation from the wombs of Gentile men and women who became Jews by choice. The whole meaning of the word *proselyte* as it relates to the Jewish religion is a Jew by choice. Again, these Gentile women and their children became identified into the tribes of which their male husband descended. These also adopted and inherited all of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These became joint heirs of all the blessings and the promises. You guess the skin color. Were the original Jews really white?
Out of Egypt came a great multitude. Of this multitude it is written that there was also a *mixed* multitude (Exodus 12:38). What are we to make of the word *mixed* except *mingled seed* of the sons, grandsons, and great grandsons unto the fourth generation of Jacob with the Egyptian bloodline. This mixed bloodline multitude stood at Mount Sinai with all the others and swore into the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that they would do all that was commanded of them that day (Exodus 19:8). This was in effect a confession of two things: 1.) The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, would become their God and: 2.) The people of Israel would become their people. After this conversion agreement the mixed and mingled multitude became Jews by choice and came under the Covenant of Sinai and they are then after numbered with the nation of Israel. There existed no distinction between these and the others. God made of the converted Gentiles no difference than those he considered Israelites at Mount Sinai. Conversion then to God and the willingness to place one's self under the Almighty God as his worshiper, was considered adoption into the Israel of God. Among males, the final act of conversion was circumcision. Circumcision was considered coming under the binding promises and covenant of Abraham that preceded the Law by 430 years. Children born of this circumcision were thence considered Israelites and members of their respective tribe and expected by faith the fulfillment of the promise of Abraham upon them." [source - Dual Identity, Jew By Choice by Cohen G. Reckart, Pastor and the Bible] >>.

Also, DNA evidence clearly shows that the contentions of the greedy is NOT so. Let's look at the facts, <<? "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
- M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000
? In addition to oral tradition and copious historical evidence, the genetic evidence stands firmly behind the common ancestry of both Ashkenazim and Sephardim in the Near East, and against any non-Jewish origin for either of these groups. Below are a collection of scientific journal articles including abstracts available worldwide on Pubmed and Medline.
Jewish and middle eastern non-jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes.

Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, Bonner MR, Jarjanazi H, Karafet T, Santachiara-Benerecetti S, Oppenheim A, Jobling MA, Jenkins T, Ostrer H, Bonne-Tamir B

Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721; Department of Genetics, Universita degli Studi di Pavia, Pavia 27100, Italy; Hadassah Medical School, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem 91120, Israel.

[Medline record in process]

Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.

PMID: 10801975, UI: 20300976
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2000 Jun 6;97(12):6769-74
? The common, Near-Eastern origin of Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews supported by Y-chromosome similarity.

Santachiara Benerecetti AS, Semino O, Passarino G, Torroni A, Brthingya R, Fellous M, Modiano G

Dipartimento di Biologia Cellulare, Universita della Calabria, Cosenza, Italy.

About 80 Sephardim, 80 Ashkenazim and 100 Czechoslovaks were examined for the Y-specific RFLPs revealed by the probes p12f2 and p49a,f on TaqI DNA digests. The aim of the study was to investigate the origin of the Ashkenazi gene pool through the analysis of markers which, having an exclusively holoandric transmission, are useful to estimate paternal gene flow. The comparison of the two groups of Jews with each other and with Czechoslovaks (which have been taken as a representative source of foreign Y-chromosomes for Ashkenazim) shows a great similarity between Sephardim and Ashkenazim who are very different from Czechoslovaks. On the other hand both groups of Jews appear to be closely related to Lebanese. A preliminary evaluation suggests that the contribution of foreign males to the Ashkenazi gene pool has been very low (1% or less per generation)." [source - The Peace Encyclopedia]>>.

CONCLUSION:

Now the facts are simple. The Ishmaelites, the greedy ones, are simply out to destroy world peace and tranquility as a subterfuge to swipe ever more land from others with this clearly being shown in the greedy statement of one of them previously presented. They care not for facts, only to satiate their greed. Obfuscation is just another tool in their SOP with respect satiating their greed.

They care NOT for world tranquility and/or peace and hate all others. Remember John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (AV) and beware of this evil.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Misplaced Blame, Some Do Not Shoulder Their Responsibility:

INTRODUCTION:

Although no one wants it, collateral damage is to be expected in any battle and the collateral damage that has occurred in Israel and Lebanon until now, 07/30/2006, is unacceptable by any standards. Specifically, I am referring to the missile attack on an Israel hospital by Hezbollah, and the bombing of a building in Qana by Israel. These types of occurrences should NOT happen.

Why do they happen? The answer is found by a failure of involved parties to apply the principle stated at 1 Peter 5:11, “Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV). To wit, one party, Hezbollah, went looking for trouble and lit the proverbial fuse to bring it about well knowing that the attacked party would respond in kind. Now Hezbollah is crying proverbial crocodile tears over the situation and wants an immediate cease fire. However, it is in their ‘hands’ as only they can arrange an immediate ceasefire, but they are putting the responsibility on others to arrange it such as the United Nations, United States, Europe, etc. This is patently ridicules since they, Hezbollah, could bring an end to the conflict within less than two hours.

Now, Hezbollah’s demands on others are pure hypocrisy to the limit, since they could bring about an immediate cease fire by simply returning the two Israelis they kidnapped and agreeing never to shot missiles or otherwise attack Israel. They could easily firm up any question of their intention by also turning over the criminals that committed the 8 murders and the 2 kidnappings that brought turmoil to a previous peaceful area.

SITUATION IS ANALOGOUS TO A LAW PASSED SOME YEARS AGO IN LOUISIANA:

Some years ago, Louisiana experienced an excessive amount of home burglaries in which televisions were stolen. The law makers of the Commonwealth of Louisiana reacted to this situation by passing a law that if you caught someone in your house stealing a television or other item you could shoot him/her.

Promptly after passage of this law, opponents severely criticized it by saying a television was NOT worth taking a life over. The proponents fired back, that it was the criminal’s choice of whether he/she felt his/her life was only worth a television or NOT. In other words, it was the wrong doer’s decision of what his/her life were worth.

NOW, This same situation prevails in the Lebanon-Israel situation; the criminal organization of Hezbollah has decided that the murder of 8 Israelis and the kidnapping and continuing holding of 2 Israelis is worth all the destruction that has resulted in both Israel and Lebanon, and the government of Lebanon has gone along with the criminal organization of Hezbollah. Lebanon’s permitting of criminal actions by the criminal organization of Hezbollah makes them accessories-after-the-fact and equally guilty for the actions of the criminal organization of Hezbollah.

So as can be seen, the Israel-Lebanon situation is directly analogous to the situation in the Commonwealth of Louisiana some years ago in that it is the WRONG DOERS CHOICE with respect to how valuable they consider the results of wrongdoing. Israel being the victim had no choice in the matter.

MISPLACED REACTIONS:

It is interesting to note the misplaced reactions of some in Lebanon. Some Lebanese attacked the United Nations (UN) mission in Lebanon and blamed the UN and the United States (US) for the bombing of Qana; whereas, the bombing was the result of a choice by the criminal organization of Hezbollah. How so? Let’s face it, if Hezbollah had not chosen to make a criminal excursion across international boarders to murder 8 Israelites and to kidnap two (2) of them NONE OF THE ATROCITIES that resulted from their wicked choice would have occurred.

Instead of venting anger and frustration at those NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMINAL ACT that lit the fuse for all the atrocities that resulted from the wicked choice of Hezbollah, they should go after those who are not only responsible for all that has occurred, but will occur, the criminal organization of Hezbollah and their government for cooperating with this criminal element.

THE FACTS AS SHOWN BY WORLD NEWS:

President Bush, along with other national leaders, not only stated that the criminal association of Hezbollah started it, but that peace could be obtained by Hezbollah disarming, <<" President Bush, on a trip to Russia, said it was up to Hezbollah "to lay down its arms and to stop attacking." Arab foreign ministers gathered in Cairo but fell into squabbling after moderate states, led by Saudi Arabia, denounced Hezbollah for starting the fight." [reference – Associated Press articles.]>>.

And,

<<""In my judgment, the best way to stop the violence is to understand why the violence occurred in the first place," Bush said. "And that's because Hezbollah has been launching rocket attacks out of Lebanon into Israel and because Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers."

Putin said it was unacceptable to try to reach political goals through abductions and strikes against an independent state. "In this context we consider Israel's concerns to be justified," he said. At the same time, he said, "the use of force should be balanced."">>

Clearly they recognize that Hezbollah and their backers are sole responsible for all that is occurring. In fact, the Russian leader Putin clearly said, <<" it was unacceptable to try to reach political goals through abductions and strikes against an independent state." [reference – Associated Press articles.]>>.

Two Little too Late by Government of Lebanon?:

<<" In an emotional televised speech, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad ...
He also pledged to reassert government authority all over Lebanese territory - suggesting the possibility of deploying the Lebanese army in the south, which Hezbollah effectively controls. That would meet a repeated U.N. and U.S. demand." [reference – Associated Press articles.]>>.

He has known of this dysfunctional situation for a long time and failed to take action even though he has been asked repeatedly by the U.N. and others. So he can NOT claim lack of responsibility for the present mess. Its like the authorities continually warning a property owner about a dangerous uncovered well on his property, and then one day a child falling in it and his wondering why he is being held responsible. But what does the Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad do? Basically he cries crocodile tears to the U.N. to do something because of his own failure to heed repeated warnings - how absurd.

Even now, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad, has NOT attempted to arrest the criminals and return their kidnapped victims and find their organization financially responsibility for all damages done in Israel and his own country. Something must be wrong with him, what I do NOT know.

CONCLUSION:

There are two things that should be undertaken as soon as possible to diffuse the intolerable situation between Lebanon-Israel.

FIRST, The government of Lebanon and the criminal organization of Hezbollah they permit to openly operate in their country should immediately return the two (2) kidnapped Israelis and stop firing missiles at Israel. And for them to contact Israel parties and sign a treaty of peace.

This could be quickly accomplished by the government of Lebanon and the criminal organization of Hezbollah and would lead to an immediate cessation of hostilities.

And, SECOND, The long term solution for the entire area that would eliminate hostilities and reduce the wretched poor condition of many of the areas inhabitants. They need to arrange an objective meeting of all directly involved with the view to getting wrongs undone and coming to agreement on a treaty of peace that goes much further than a mere cessation of belligerent acts. Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and the Palestine squatters need to start working together on the regions problems such as developing the regions economy, the setting up of a regional electrical grid along with Jordan, peaceful commerce between them, joint task force to eliminate terrorist, none permitting of militias and other irregular military groups, and setting up joint fact finding groups. Lebanon is a beautiful country that if they joined with Israel in setting up a joint economic region could soon become a regional economic powerhouse and create many jobs, not just for their respective citizens, but for the Palestine squatters and the Jordanians and the Syrians. The region needs economic development and jobs, not war and infrastructure destroying activity.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Many Muslims Do NOT Respect Order of Law

INTRODUCTION:

Criminals, be they men, women, or children should be prosecuted under law and should NEVER be released due to the criminal acts of others. No nation and/or police force should ever agree to release criminals and/or those waiting to be tried on criminal charges in order to free victims of other criminal activities. To do so is NOT in accordance with order of law, and only leads to more criminal acts since the nation and/or police force is shown NOT to have a backbone for enforcing the law as they should.

Criminals should be punished for their criminal acts if respect for law and order is to be maintained against the wicked criminal element.

MANY MUSLIMS BACK THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT:

Many Muslims back the criminal element and want to commit criminal acts to get wicked criminals freed. Why? Because they like the criminals, but know they are guilty and will be found so in a court of law in any democratic country.

Let's look at an example where this warped concept is brought into play, <<"Palestinian officials said they had not received a response to their demand that Israel guarantees that it will free women, children and long-serving Palestinian prisoners before an Israeli soldier seized by Gaza militants is released.

Cpl. Gilad Shalit, 19, was captured by Hamas-linked militants in a cross-border raid on June 25 that prompted the latest Israeli incursion into Gaza. Two Israeli soldiers were killed.

Dr. Salah Bardawil, a senior Hamas official, said Israel's refusal to guarantee that it would release any Palestinian prisoners if Shalit were freed created a stalemate." [source - article by By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer, "Palestinians brace for more Gaza raids."]>>, when they should return immediately the kidnapped victim, Gilad Shalit, and turn over the wicked murderers that did the wicked act and also the wicked acts of two murders. No, but instead, they want criminals released that they know are guilty of criminal acts. Now, if they had asked for a guarantee of fair trials for criminals that would of course be okay.

Now of course this is just one example to this warped evil thinking. To wit, the entire battle that Hezbollah created and bears full responsibility for in which some Hezbollah criminals crossed an international boundary and wickedly murdered eight Israelis and kidnapped two with the tacit approval of Lebanon who did nothing about it. This makes Lebanon an accessory after-the-fact to this heinous crime, and they therefore must bear the responsibility along with Israel for this wicked act.

Now any civilized government would NOT permit a criminal association such as Hezbollah to operate in their country and to have members of this criminal association, Hezbollah, as members of their government, i.e., they are members of the Lebanese parliament, and were licensed to operate a TV station, can you imagine that?

These evil criminals also seek to free guilty criminals in exchange for kidnapped victims. One criminal act on top of another.

Order of law must be restored in the middle east or the region is going to go into absolute chaos which will not be in anyone's long term interest.

Criminals must be made to serve out their just sentence and all should respect the order of law process instead of thinking they can commit any evil crime and that their fellow criminals will get them out by another evil act of murder and kidnapping.

CONCLUSION:

Order of law must be implemented in the middle east. Criminals must be taught to respect law and order, and all governments must come to respect order of law also.

In addition, hate and violence, must give away to neighbor love and assistance if the middle east is ever to obtain stability.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Islam is Delusional - Does Not Recognize Facts

INTRODUCTION:

Many in Islam are delusional and do not recognize reality as will be clearly shown using some of their writings and bouncing them against the facts. Makes one think of John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

This fact is clearly shown by the inability of many to distinguish between cause and effect in the crisis between Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Israel (year 2006). Many point to the number killed and which side did it, i.e., hospital in Israel and town of Qana in Lebanon, but ignore the fact that both are but effects of a causative act. Now the causative act that resulted in so much adverse effects, destruction and death, was a surprise unprovoked across boarder attack by a criminal organization, Hezbollah, given tacit approval by the government of Lebanon who even permits members of this group to be members of its parliament. So this attack was the 'trigger' and/or cause responsible for all the adverse effects, death and destruction, that results; therefore, total responsibility for all the effects rest solely on this criminal organization and the Lebanese government for permitting their operation in Lebanon.

The same holds true for Islam's belief in ERROR put forth by greedy Ishmalites that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael that Ishmael was the promised seed; whereas, in reality it was Isaac as made clear at Genesis 17:19-21, "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." (AV).
So this scripture makes it clear that Isaac is the line through which the covenant is made, and NOT Ishmael, who was only stated to become a 'great nation.'

Now let's look at the detail of what a member of Islam said bounced against the truth, reality, the facts.

SELF-DECEPTION PART 1:

One member of Islam said, <<" Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. [Genesis 12:1-3]

God in this verse is speaking to Abraham and NOT the Jews or Isaac exclusively. Abraham's "nation" was through prophet Isaac (through which Moses and Jesus were born) AND ALSO through prophet Ishamel (through which prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) was born. So you cannot filter out the Muslims here.">>, but missed what was said at Genesis 17:15-22, "And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. 17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? 18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! 19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. 22 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham." (AV). So as can be seen from verse 19 and 22 that the everlasting covenant would be ONLY through Abraham's seed through Isaac and NOT through Abraham's seed through Ishmael.

So we can see that many in Islam delude themselves with respect whether the everlasting covenant was established with both Ishmael and Isaac; when in reality it WAS ONLY ESTABLISHED with Isaac.

SELF-DECEPTION PART 2:

One member of Islam said, <<""A great Nation" Who is the "great nation" in the world that was promissed in that verse? It is a fact the Muslims are all over the world and Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, starting 600 years after Christianity.

"and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing"
When Muslims prayer 5 times a day, we mention Abraham by name and mentions the blessings that Allah had bestowed on Him and his descendants. We say:

"O Allah, bless our Muhammad and the people of Muhammad; As you have blessed Abraham and the people of Abraham. Surely you are the Praiseworthy, the Glorious. O Allah, be gracious unto Muhammad and the people of Muhammad; As you were gracious unto Abraham and the people of Abraham. Surely you are the Praiseworthy, the Glorious" (http://muslim-canada.org/salaat.html#salawat)

We repeat this no less than 15 times during the 5 daily prayers in a day. And those who perform additional prayers, they recite these words many more times. At any moment in time, people are praying one of their prescribed 5 daily prayers around the world, some are praying (1) the morning prayer before sunrise, some are praying (2) the afternoon prayer, some, (3) the evening prayer before sunset, some, (4) the evening prayer after sunset and some, (5) the night prayer. And consider that everyday millions of Muslims are praying 5 times a day around the world, and if you add this up, that it a lot of praising and glorifying the Holy Prophet and Abraham and his decendants (pbut) constantly all the time.">>, but clearly overlook once more the fact that, yes, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham said Ishmael would be a great nation per Genesis 17:20, "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation." (AV). However, nowhere did the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael EVER SAY THE EVERLASTING COVENANT would come through Ishmael's line, but clearly said it would come through the line of Isaac, his half brother the son of Abraham's wife Sarah at Genesis 17:4-17, "As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. 15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. 17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? 18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! 19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him." (AV). As can clearly be seen, deluded members of Islam look at Genesis 17:7-9 and say Ah we are the everlasting covenant people, but fail to notice Genesis 17:15-16 and Genesis 17:19 which clearly shows they ARE NOT PART OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT as that comes through Abraham's seed Isaac and NOT Ishmael.

This fact is clearly noted in a world renown Bible commentary as follows, <<"19, 20. The blessings of the covenant are reserved for Isaac, but common blessings were abundantly promised to Ishmael; and though the visible Church did not descend from his family, yet personally he might, and it is to be hoped did, enjoy its benefits." [source - Jamieson, Faussett, Brown (JFB) Commentary]>>; and in the Eclectic Notes on The Bible, <<"thou shalt call his name Isaac: Abraham intercedes for Ishmael, but God dwells on Isaac- 'Laughter'. Faith can laugh when God acts purely from Himself, and in His own power. Abraham could not laugh over Ishmael, because what was of the flesh came in there, but the one who could laugh over Isaac could pray, in the sense of grace, for Ishmael. Ishmael speaks of Israel according to the flesh. God would bless him in hearing prayer-a finger-post to blessing for Israel if they had taken note of it- but Isaac was the one with whom His covenant would be established, the One brought in in resurrection power, as Rom. 4 would suggest. God's goodness was there for Ishmael. He ever cared for stubborn and rebellious Israel-a nation truly like Ishmael, "a wild ass of a man". But whenever a cry of need came, even from perverse and rebellious Israel, God heard it. Ishmael's history would have been most instructive for Israel if they had taken heed to it. God was saying to them by it, If you only cry to me you will get blessing. But they were too proud to take the place of need, and therefore they missed the blessing. They claimed the privileges of the covenant without realising what was involved in the sign of the covenant. Therefore they did not keep the covenant; they always had confidence in the flesh; they were never truly circumcised. God had to tell them that they were uncircumcised in heart and ears. And that is why they are now fallen and cut off. Their history is a solemn warning to all who take up divine things in a fleshly way." [source - Eclectic Notes on The Bible]>>; and the Geneva Bible Footnotes says, <<"17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an {g} everlasting covenant, [and] with his seed after him.

(g) The everlasting covenant is made with the children of the Spirit. A temporary promise is made with the children of the flesh, as was promised to Ishmael." [source - Geneva Bible Footnotes of 1599]>>. So it can be seen they have deluded themselves once more by not considering the Biblical caveats.

SELF-DECEPTION PART 3:

One member of Islam said, <<" Also, muslims go to Pilgrimage to Makkah, where Abraham and Ishmael built the House of God (Holy Ka'ba) and we perform many rituals which commemorate many of the important events concenring Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael, such as throwing seven pebbles at Satan, 'running' seven times between two mountains, slaughtering animals (to commemorate the sacrifice of Ishmael) etc.

In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: 19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, 20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, 21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girganutses, and the Jebusites. [Genesis 15:18-21]

Again, notice how God is saying to Abraham that "Unto thy seed..." (i.e. descendants). Looks like Christians and Jews forget the Ishmael was also the descendent of Abraham. The promissed land was outlined to ABRAHAM and his descendants, and not to the Jews or Isaac exclusively.">>.

First, the part of the claim that Abraham and Ishmael built the Ka'ba is pure pagan myth, and the Bible says absolutely nothing about the myth, but here are some facts and resources to consider:

First set of references:
1. "We used to consider (i.e. going around) them a [pagan] custom of the Pre-islamic period of Ignorance, so when Islam came, we gave up going around them. Then Allah revealed" "Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the Symbols of Allah. So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to ambulate (Tawaf) between them." (2.158) (Hadith, al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 22-23)
2. Regarding the two little hills of Safa and Marwa, "Unfortunately the Pagan Arabs had placed a male and a female idol here, and their gross and superstitious rites caused offence to the early Muslims. They felt some hesitation in going round these places during the Pilgrimage. As a matter of fact they should have known that the Ka'ba (the House of God) had been itself defiled with idols, and was sanctified again by the purity of Muhammad's life and teaching. (The holy Qur'an, text, translation and commentary, by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. 1872-1952, First published in 1938, 1973 ed., p. 62, footnote 160, commenting on 2:158)
3. Ibn al 'Arabi (A.H. 543) reports from ibn Sihab that 'Urwa said: "I asked 'Aisha, "What is your view of Q 2:158?: 'There shall be no blame on him who performs tawaf between Safsa and Marwa.' Surely there can be no blame on anyone who does not perform this tawaf?" 'Aisha replied that were the case as 'Urwa supposed, the verse would read: 'There shall be no blame on him who does not perform the tawaf.' The Ansar, feeling certain scruples about this ceremony, on account of the locality's former association with idols, consulted the Prophet. God revealed Q 2.158. The Prophet then laid down the sunna of performing the tawaf. It is thus incumbent upon pilgrims not to omit it. (Abu Bakr Muhammad b. 'Abdulla b. al 'Arabi, Ahkam al Qur'an, 4 vols (Cairo, 1957/1376), vol 1, p.46, quoted by John Burton, The Collection of the Qur'an, p. 12)
4. "One of the companions said to Anas ibn Malik, 'Did you use to hate running between the Safa and Marwa?' He said, 'Yes, because it was part of the pre-Islamic rituals until God gave Muhammad this verse and proclaimed that it was also one of God's ceremonial rites"' (refer to Sahih of al-Bukhari, volume 2, page 195).
5. Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: To run along the valley between two green pillars of Safa and Marwa (mountains) was not Sunna, but the people in the pre-islamic period of ignorance used to run along it, and used to say: "We do not cross this rain stream except running strongly. " (Hadith, al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 186)
6. Narrated Urwa: I said to 'Aisha, the wife of the Prophet, and I was at that time a young boy, "How do you interpret the Statement of Allah: "Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the Symbols of Allah." So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj to the House of Allah) or perform the Umra, to ambulate (Tawaf) between them. In my opinion it is not sinful for one not to ambulate (Tawaf) between them." 'Aisha said, "Your interpretation is wrong for as you say, the Verse should have been: "So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj or Umra to the House, not to ambulate (Tawaf) between them.' This Verse was revealed in connection with the Ansar who (during the Pre-Islamic Period) used to visit Manat (i.e. an idol) after assuming their Ihram, and it was situated near Qudaid (i.e. a place at Mecca), and they used to regard it sinful to ambulate between Safa and Marwa after embracing Islam. When Islam came, they asked Allah's Apostle about it, whereupon Allah revealed:-- "Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the Symbols of Allah. So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra, to ambulate (Tawaf) between them." "Narrated 'Asim bin Sulaiman: I asked Anas bin Malik about Safa and Marwa. Anas replied, "We used to consider (i.e. going around) them a custom of the Pre-islamic period of Ignorance, so when Islam came, we gave up going around them. Then Allah revealed" "Verily, Safa and Marwa (i.e. two mountains at Mecca) are among the Symbols of Allah. So it is not harmful of those who perform the Hajj of the House (of Allah) or perform the Umra to ambulate (Tawaf) between them." (2.158) (Hadith, al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 22-23)
7. Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle performed Tawaf of the Ka'ba and the Sa'i of Safa and Marwa so as to show his strength to the pagans. (Hadith, al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 710-711)
8. "The demons in the Jahiliyya used to circumnavigate all night around these two mountains. The idols (were erected) between them. When Islam came, they (Muslims) said, 'O, apostle of God, we would never run between the Safa and Marwa because this is an unfavorable matter which we were accustomed to do in the Jahiliyya.' Thus, God gave this verse" (refer to Asbab al-Nuzul by Suyuti, page 27).
9. "Asaf and Nayelah, the former the image of a man, the latter of a woman, were also two idols brought with Hobal from Syria, and placed the one on Mount Safa, and the other on Mount Merwa" (Preliminary Discourse to the Koran, Sale, p. 22, 1801).

Second set of references:
1. "curious set of ceremonies of pagan Arab origin which Mohammed has incorporated into his religion" (Hurgronje, Mohammedanism, p. 160)
2. The rites of the Kaaba were retained, but stripped of all idolatrous tendency, they still hang, a strange unmeaning shroud, around the living theism of Islam. (The Original Sources of the Qur'an, William St. Clair Tisdall, 1905)
3. Muslim scholars have also been constrained to admit that Muhammad adopted the pagan Arab pilgrimage en bloc into Islam, seeking to justify it on the historical fiction that Abraham was its originator and that later generations perverted its monotheistic origin and emphasis. (Muhammad and the Religion of Islam, John Gilchrist)
4. We cannot accept, however, the claim that the ceremonies as practiced today were first performed by Abraham. It is historically illogical to assume that they survived unchanged through centuries of pagan Arab custom while idol-worship became the order of the day. The most probable reasons for Muhammad's acceptance of the Hajj ceremonies have already been given in this book - the honour bestowed on him before his mission when he was appointed to replace the Black Stone in the Ka'aba and his constant search for a means whereby he might reconcile himself to his pagan countrymen. It is highly significant that Meccan opposition to Muhammad's cause collapsed immediately after he and his followers had performed the pilgrimage - the exact rites performed by the pagan Arabs, excluding the worship of their idols - a year after the Treaty of Hudaybiyah had allowed them to do so. (Muhammad and the Religion of Islam, John Gilchrist)
5. "It is, therefore, in these absurd rites of the Hajj that Islam finds its severest condemnation, and the falsity of Muhammad's pretended revelations is amply demonstrated. The Hajj was Muhammad's compromise with Arabian Paganism." (The Sources of Islam, Blair, p. 162; quoted in Muhammad and the Religion of Islam, John Gilchrist)

See Part 2:

[iris89]

Part 2:


6. Perhaps the greatest irony of this whole ceremony is that its origin should be attributed to Abraham, a man who, according to the Qur'an, detested idols made of stone and destroyed them (Surah 37. 91-93). For the whole emphasis of the pilgrimage falls on stones. The Muslims circumambulate the Ka'aba, an empty shrine made of stones, kiss the Black Stone built into it, and pray at the maqam-i-Ibrahim in front of which stands a small shrine containing another stone (the qadam-i-Ibrahim) on which Abraham allegedly stood while building the Ka'aba (it is supposed to bear his footprint). Arafat is a plain on which the Mount of Mercy stands - covered with stones and a stone monolith commemorating Muhammad's farewell sermon. At Mina the pilgrims throw small stones at larger stone pillars. Surely it is almost ridiculous to believe that the great patriarch - the exemplar of true faith in those very early days - was the author of ceremonies whose rites were vested in stones, the very things from which the pagan idols were made. (Muhammad and the Religion of Islam, John Gilchrist)
7. "This last was a magnificent stroke of policy, besides satisfying his own insuppressible hankering after Mecca and its fetish, for it bound the Meccans, and the Mecca-visiting Arabs to the new regime and faith as nothing else could have done." (The Reproach of Islam, Gairdner, p.71, referring to Muhammad's choice to perform the pagan pilgrimage; quoted in Muhammad and the Religion of Islam, John Gilchrist)
8. The Ka'bah was then the holy of holies of paganism and securely protected against any attack against its authorities or sanctity. (The Life of Muhammad, Haykal, p. 43; quoted in Muhammad and the Religion of Islam, John Gilchrist)
9. "the Arabian situation was polytheistic at the time of the first surviving records of it. (Britannica, Arabian Religions, p1059, 1979)
10. Commenting on the evolution of religion in Arabia: "Another significant change was that a monotheistic religion, with "the Lord of Heaven and Earth" as the sole god, had become the faith of the state. Formerly the religion of South Arabia had been basically stellar, with 'Athtar holding the senior place as the patron of land and agriculture and, in Ma'in, even of trade. Each state or tribe had had its own moon god under a national or local name. The temples had been centres of religious life, and the priests of the moon gods had normally provided oracle services. Pilgrimage had been performed to certain temples of the moon gods, with rituals similar in many details to those of the pre-Islamic and Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca. Minor deities of agriculture and irrigation had been known, especially in Saba', as well as house gods and genies. The tribe Amir had practiced a semi-monotheistic religion-that of Dhii-Samdwi (Lord of Heavens). They worshipped no other god, although they paid homage to the gods of other communities in which they occasionally found themselves. The god's name resembles that of the "Lord of Heaven and Earth" of the monotheistic religion that emerged in the 5th century, but it is not known whether the latter developed from it." (Britannica, Arabia, History of, p1045, 1979)
11. The question of pilgrimage which was an element foreign to nomadic civilization and of a late date among Semitic peoples (Studies on Islam, edited by Merlin L. Swartz, Pre-Islamic Bedouin Religion, by Joseph Henninger, 1981, p 3-22)
12. IV. The Ka'ba In Legend And Superstition. The alleged religion of Abraham gave a basis for the esteem in which the Muslims held the Ka'ba. Legend attached itself to the Kur'anic statements and spun them out. As Snouck Ilurgronje has proved in his Mekkaansche Feest against Dozy's hypotheses (see his Israelielen in Mekka), there can be no question of a local Meccan tradition in this connection. There was, it is true, a local tradition, but it consists of semi-historical reminiscences of the last few centuries before Islam. But all that tradition relates regarding the origin of the Ka'ba and its connections with Biblical personages, belongs to Islamic legend. (First Encyclopedia of Islam, E.J. Brill, 1987, Islam, p. 587-591)
13. On the other hand Muslim legend has developed the passage, Sura iii. 90: "Truly, the first temple that was founded for men is that in Bakka; a blessed house and a guidance for (all) creatures". The ambiguous expression according to which lbrahim and Isma'il "raised" the foundations of the Ka'ba left room for the view that the foundations already existed on which he erected the building. (First Encyclopedia of Islam, E.J. Brill, 1987, Islam, p. 587-591)
14. This legendary story of the origin of the Ka'ba was easily brought into conformity with the cosmological views current among Christians and Jews in the East, the central point of which was the sanctuary itself. Muslim tradition at first adopted this cosmology completely, as is evident from the statements which are still wholly under the influence of the predominance of Jerusalem. They were however not content with this and transferred a considerable part of these sayings to Mecca. (First Encyclopedia of Islam, E.J. Brill, 1987, Islam, p. 587-591)
15. The Islamic tradition furnishes several clues about the possible anthro-pological origins of the Ka'ba. Like several other shrines in Arabia, it was part of a haram, or sacred area, where intertribal fighting was forbidden in order to facilitate trade. The temple was evidently at the centre of a cult involving idol worship. The presiding deity was Hubal, a large carnelian statue kept inside the temple; 36o other idols were ranged outside. The three goddesses described in the Quran as the 'daughters of Allah' - Allat, 'Uzza and Manat - were also worshipped in the vicinity. By the Prophet's time Christian influences were making themselves felt. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
16. Like the Quran itself, the earliest Muslim sources suggest that the pre-Islamic cult of the Ka'ba had some astronomical significance. The historian Mas'udi (896-956) stated that certain people had regarded the Ka'ba as a temple dedicated to the Sun, Moon and the five visible planets (making up the mystical figure of seven, the number of circumambulations required for each tawaf ). The story that there were exactly 36o idols placed round the temple also points to an astronomical significance. Among the votive gifts said to have been offered to the idols were golden suns and moons. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
17. They may then drink and fill their jars with Zamzam water before proceeding to the sa'i - running between the hillocks of Safa and Marwa, in imitation of Hagar's plight. The whole distance, some 460 metres, has to be covered seven times at something between a walk and a jog. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
18. The strain of performing the sa'i, in which the pilgrim must travel some 3.5 kilometres, has been to some extent relieved by the architects who have enclosed the whole passage inside a long air-conditioned gallery. The marble-flanked walkway includes a special corridor where the old, infirm or disabled can be pushed along in wheelchairs. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
19. The pilgrim who continues to make the Hajj, which only takes place at the appointed season, leaves the haram area after performing the sa'i and makes for the plain of 'Arafat, a vast natural amphitheatre surrounded by hills about 11 kilometres from Mecca. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
20. Before the Saudis banned the use of private cars the journey could amount to ten or more hours of nightmarish struggle between traffic and pedestrians. In recent years the Saudis have tried to alleviate the situation by banning vehicles carrying less than nine passengers, but the confusion is still considerable. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
21. At Muzdalifa - 'the place where one makes oneself agreeable' - the pilgrims collect the small pebbles, 49 in all, to be used in the most complicated and arcane of the Hajj ceremonies, the ritual stoning of the three pillars, or Jamarat, at Mina. The pebbles, each of which is supposed to be the size of a chick-pea, are thrown in sequences of seven at each of the three pillars situated about 300 metres apart along the road between Mina and Mecca, where a huge two-tier walkway has been constructed enabling the people to stone the pillars from either level. The ritual is purely pagan, and there is no reference to it in the Quran. The pilgrims perform it only because, according to the hadifh traditions, the Prophet himself did so during his Farewell Pilgrimage. There is no mention in the canonical texts of the popular belief that the ceremonies involve the 'stoning of Satan'. Nevertheless the belief is held universally throughout the Muslim world, and is said to account for the violence with which many pilgrims attack the pillars. Ali Shariati, the Iranian radical, gives the ceremony an unabashed revolutionary symbolism: These pebbles will be used as your weapons to kill your enemy . . . What does the pebble represent? It represents a bullet ... Each soldier in Ibrahim's army has to shoot seventy bullets at the enemies in Mina. They are to be fired at the head, trunk and heart of the enemy. Only those which hit the enemy will be counted. If you are not an expert select more bullets to compensate for your lack of skill . . . If you hit one less than the recommended number, you are not considered a soldier nor is your Hajj valid . (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
22. At Mina the wastage of meat has up till now been appalling, since most of it has had to be destroyed in lime-pits soon after the killing. Today the Saudi authorities are investing in freezer-plants and other ways of preserving the animal products. The animals are counted in 'sheep-units', rating from one for a sheep or goat up to seven for a fully grown cow or camel. In 1981 about one million 'sheep-units' were sacrificed, seventy per cent of them during the first day of sacrifice, and of these, about half between morning and midday. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
23. The pagan background of all these rites, from the standing a t'Arafat to the Feast of Sacrifice, is still obscure. Muslim authorities are understandably reticent on the subject, while, for obvious reasons, archaeologists are unlikely to be admitted to the area in the foreseeable future. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
24. Some anthropologists have seen in the standing at 'Arafat relics of an ancient rainmaking cult. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
25. The 'ifada front 'Arafat to Muzdalifa, which in pre-Islamic times began before nightfall, may have represented the 'persecution' of the dying sun. The stone-throwing at Mina, according to the earliest Muslim sources, only occurred after the sun had passed the meridian, suggesting a ritual pursuit of the sun-demon, whose harsh rule ends with the summer. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
26. Just as the Quran did not suddenly appear out of nowhere in a strange and incomprehensible language, but was assembled from existing verbal materials, so the central ritual of Islam, the Hajj, was arranged out of existing cultic practices. The actions themselves were almost unchanged, but their meaning was transformed to fit a new, vastly expanded, cosmic vision. The result was a religious and ideological tour de force. By abolishing the intercalary month, Muhammad freed the rituals from their seasonal connections: from now on the Hajj could fall at any time of the year, for the cosmic deity to whom all the rituals were to be addressed was the same God in autumn and spring, summer and winter. Similarly, the sanctuaries associated with particular localities were not abolished, but included within a set of rituals covering the whole area. 'The whole of 'Arafat is a place for standing, the whole of Muzdalifa is a place for stopping, the whole of Mina is a place for sacrifice,' the Prophet is related to have said on the Farewell Pilgrimage. Similar effects were achieved by subtly adjusting the timing of the ancient ceremonies. Ancient taboos associated with the rituals were deliberately violated to demonstrate the impotence of the pagan gods and the inefficacy of the rituals when dedicated to them. But the forms of the rituals were preserved because the Prophet was fully aware of the importance they held for his people. Beyond that, he knew that the rituals formed part of a universal language composed of bodily movements as well as verbal utterances, by means of which human beings express their deepest needs and apprehensions. The remarkable expansion of Islam, especially in the Far East and tropical Africa, long after its initial political and military impetus had exhausted itself, was in no small measure due to the ease with which it absorbed local cults and then directed them towards the broader social and cosmological purpose of the monotheistic vision. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
27. But being constantly exposed to torrents, it was destroyed, and was rebuilt by Qusaiy ibn Kilab, who put a top to it. Up to this time it is said to have been open at the roof. (A Dictionary Of Islam, Thomas Patrick Hughes, 1965, Kaba, p 256)
28. The roof was supported within by six pillars, and the statue of Hubal was placed over a wall then existing within the Ka'bah. This took place during the youth of Muhammad. Al-Azraqi, quoted by Burekhardt, says that-the figure of the Virgin Mary and the infant Jesus was sculptured as a deity upon one of the six pillars nearest the gate. (A Dictionary Of Islam, Thomas Patrick Hughes, 1965, Kaba, p 256)
29. According to the Traditions and the inventive genius of Muslim writers, the Ka'bah was. first constructed in heaven (where a model of it still remains, called the Baitu 'l-Ma'mur) two thousand years before the creation of the world. Adam erected the Ka'bah on earth exactly below the spot its perfect model occupies in heaven, and selected the stones from the five sacred mountains, Sinai, al-Judi, Hire, Olivet, and Lebanon. Ten thousand angels were appointed to guard the structure; but, as Burckhardt remarks, they appear to have been often most remiss in their duty! At the Deluge the Sacred House was destroyed. But the Almighty is said to have instructed Abraham to rebuild it. In its reconstruction Abraham was assisted by his son Ishmael, who with his mother Hagar were at the time residents of Makkah, Abraham having journeyed from Syria in order to obey the commands of God. Upon digging they found the original foundations of the building. But wanting a stone to mark the corner of the building, Ishmael started in search of one, and as he was going in the direction of Jabal Qubais, the angel Gabriel met him, and gave him the famous black stone. Ibn 'Abbas relates that the Prophet said, the black stone when it came down from Paradise was whiter than milk, but that it has become black from the sin of those who have touched it. (MisWf, book Ii. Ch. iv. pt. 2.) (A Dictionary Of Islam, Thomas Patrick Hughes, 1965, Kaba, p 256)
30. The pagan Arabs practiced polytheism. They worshipped nature, stones. angels and demons. Particular reverence was accorded the three 'daughters of God', and various national, local and family idols. Each tribe gave allegiance to a special protector: one god to whom it turned in time of distress. Our modern altars may have had their beginnings in the stone worship of the ancients. One stone still holds a revered spot in the Arab heart. This is the stone that fell from paradise at the fall of Adam. Pure white it was and housed in a temple built by Seth, Adam's son, until a great flood ravaged the land, destroyed the temple, and buried it under the mud and debris. Tradition relates that the stone remained hidden until Abraham sent his wife Hagar into the desert with their infant son Ishmael. One day, weakened by thirst, Hagar laid her baby on the sand to rest. His fitful thrashings uncovered a spring of clear water near the site of the lost relic. It is told that an angel descended from heaven and helped recover the sacred stone and that Ishmael rebuilt the holy house of Seth with the assistance of Abraham and the archangel Gabriel. This, in brief, is the story of the Kaaba,' holiest building in Islam. (Islam and the Arabs, Rom Landau, 1958 p 11-21)
31. It is clear from these and similar Quranic texts that the original pilgrimage rituals were not so much being described to Abraham as alluded to for the benefit of a Meccan audience that was already quite familiar with them.' It was once again left for later commentators to fill in the details, not of the Hajj, to be sure, which was well known to all, but of Abraham and Ishmael's connection with it. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
32. In this passage he describes how Abraham, at God's urging, performed that original pilgrimage ritual. Abu al-Walid related to us ... (from) Uthman ibn Saj: Muhammad ibn Ishaq reported to me: When Abraham the Friend of the Merciful finished building the sacred House, Gabriel came and said: "Circle it seven times!" and he circumambulated it seven times with Ishmael, touching all the corners during each circumambulation. When they had completed seven, he and Ishmael prayed two prostrations behind the stone [maqam]. He said: Gabriel got up with them and showed him all the ritual stations: al-Safa, al-Marwa, Mina, Muzdalifa, and Arafat. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
33. As these accounts attempt to demonstrate, the complex ritual the Muslims call the Hajj or Pilgrimage can be traced back, in general and in each specific detail, to Adam and, more proximately, to Abraham, whose intent and practices Muhammad was to restore so many centuries later. For the non-Muslim, however, the Meccan rituals are striking remnants of a pagan, albeit Semitic, past in Arabia, which the Prophet of Islam permitted to survive by incorporating them into his own prescriptions. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
34. It was the Zamzam, then, or perhaps the two high places called Safa and Marwa, that established the sanctity of the site of Mecca, though how long before Qusayy we cannot say. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
35. As for archeological evidence, it is sparse indeed, particularly from Arabia, where excavation is still in its very early stage and the sparse results are speculative in the extreme. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
36. In a chapter entitled "The Building of the Ka'ba by the Quraysh in the Age of Barbarism," the Meccan historian at-Azi-aqi (d. 834 C.F.) collected some of the traditions still extent on the early appearance of the House before its substantial reconstruction during the early manhood of Muhammad. Some men from quraysh sat in the sanctuary ... and were remembering the building of the Ka'ba and they described how it was before that time. It was built of dried [unmortared] stones and not with clay or mud. Its door was on ground level and it had no roof or ceiling. The curtain (kiswa) was hung on its wall on one side and was tied to the top of the center of the wall. On the right as one entered the Ka'ba there was a pit where gifts of money and goods for the Ka'ba were deposited. In this pit sat a snake to guard it, which God had sent at the time of the (tribe of) jurhum.... The horns of the ram that Abraham had slaughtered (in place of Isaac or Ishmael) were hanging on the wall facing the entrance. The were ornaments hanging in it which had been given as gifts. (Azraqi 1858: 106) Tabari tells a story from Ibn Ishaq that casts a little more light on the earlier building: The, reason for their [the Quraysh's] demolition of the ka'ba (early in the seventh century C.E.) was that at this time it consisted of loose stones rising to somewhat above a man's height, and they wished to make it higher and roof it over since some men, Quraysh and others, had stolen the treasure of the Ka'ba, which was kept in a well in its interior. (Tabai-i, Annals 1.1130 = Tabari vi: 51) By this account the Ka'ba does not appear to be a house at all but rather some kind of enclosure built around a pit or dry well, an enclosure that was, however, draped with a cloth curtain (kiswa) in a manner to give it the appearance of a tent. ... A tent like structure makes more sense, and it has been plausibly suggested that the later cubiform stone building, the ancestor of the one that stands in Mecca today, succeeded a square or quadrangular tent and so was distinguished from the round tents of the inhabitants of the settlement.19 The sequence would not be very different, then, from the Israelite one: the Ark of the desert wanderings continued to be housed in a tent even after its transfer to urban Jerusalem (2 Samuel 6:17); and when it was finally housed in a stone building, that "holy of holies" was likewise a ka'ba, twenty cubits in length and width and height (1 Kings 6:20). (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
37. Nor was Mecca's the only Such building in Arabia. An early Muslim historian of the antiquities, Hisham ibn al-Kalbi, reported the presence of other ka'bas in and around the peninsula: The Banu al-Harith lbn Ka'b had in Najran a ka'ba which they venerated. ... The Iyad had another ka'ba in Sindad, (which is located) in a region between Kufa and Basra (in Iraq). (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
38. We cannot say, then, how typical the obviously crude Meccan structure was. But whether typical or not, its primitive and makeshift architecture comes as no surprise: not only was it situated in a wadi, and so vulnerable to the normal destructive consequences; but the Meccan Ka'ba was also built to serve people who were originally nomads and who had, even by the late sixth century, so little skill at construction that they required the assistance of a foreign carpenter to put a timber roof on the edifice. But for all that, it was a temple and had all the primary characteristics of such: a quadrangular cella oriented to the cardinal compass points, 20 a sacred rock and sacred spring, a characteristic haram with the usual privileges of the right of asylum, and so on. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
39. Although it is true that the primary liturgy connected with the Mecca building, the ritual circumambulation, was performed outside, there is almost no trace, either before or under Islam, of the notion that the interior of the Ka'ba was in any way more sacred than the surrounding Haram. Access to it was controlled, as we shall have many occasions to see, but exclusively, it would appear, on the grounds of political privilege. ...The Ka'ba was not, then, a more sacred haram within the larger Haram that surrounded it. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
40. According to Muslim tradition, this had been a part, though not a structural part, of the building from the beginning, that is to say, from Adam's original construction of the House of God. But the tradition also remembered that the stone had come from Abu Qubays, a mountain overlooking Mecca." The two strands of tradition were harmonized in an account whereby the stone was concealed on Abu Qubays during the era of the Flood, when Adam's original Ka'ba was destroyed, and then restored to Abraham for inclusion in his version of the Ka'ba. But the harmonization was not perfect. Other traditions recollected that the Black Stone, or at least its inclusion in the Ka'ba, was of much more recent origin. Ibn Sa'd says that the Quraysh brought it down from Abu Qubays only four years before Muhammad's first revelation. 21 In another account, from al-Fakihi, it is traced back to the Quraysh's first reconstruction of the building, possibly at the time of Qusayy. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
41. But if, as seems equally likely, the stone was originally one of the portable betyls of the early settlers at Mecca, its incorporation into the structure of the Ka'bal like the depiction of similar stones on the walls of temples at Madain Salih and elsewhere, would signal the decision of nomads to make a fixed settlement." (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)

See Part 3:

[iris89]

Part 3:

42. It has been suggested, for example, that a low wall, and so the hijr enclosure, once surrounded the Ka'ba on all sides and marked the area within which the idols were worshiped through sacrifice,31 or, more enticingly but less convincingly, that the hatim represents the remains of the apse of a Christian church oriented toward Jerusalem, which, it will be seen, was the direction in which once Muhammad prayed while he was still at Mecca. The word hijr itself means "inviolable" or "taboo," and it occurs once in that sense in the Quran (6:137-139), in reference not to the area near the Ka'ba but to animals and crops earmarked as belonging to the gods, a sense that supports the contention that the hijr, whatever its original extent, may have served as a pen for the animals destined for sacrifice to the idols around the Ka'ba.33 Whether it was so used in Muhammad's own lifetime seems doubtful, however, at least on the evidence of the Muslim authorities. As the hijr is portrayed in Muhammad's day, it was a place of common assembly where political matters were discussed, or people prayed, or, as it appears, slept. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
43. Al-Fakihi then records a tradition traced back to Ibn Abbas stating that there is an inscription on the maqam saying: "This is the House of God, He put it on the quadrangles of His throne, its sustenance will come from this and that, its people will be the first to suspend its sanctity." (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
44. If pilgrims are drawn to it, so too are historians, who see in the source called Zamzam a plausible explanation of why there was a sanctuary in the wadi of Mecca in the first place. In the nineteenth century Julius Wellhausen pronounced the Zamzam "the only spring of Mecca and so likely the origin of the holy place as well as the city," and other authorities have generally been inclined to agree. There are problems, however. Other wells quenched Mecca," as Ibn Ishaq reveals when speaking of the Zamzam. Zamzam utterly eclipsed the other wells from which the pilgrims used to get their water, and the people went to it because it was in the sacred enclosure and because its water was superior to any other; and also because it was the well of Ishmael, son of Abraham. Because of it the Banu Abd Manaf behaved boastfully towards the Quraysh and the other Arabs. (Ibn Ishaq 1955: 65) The Zamzam was not, then, unique; it was simply superior, and the basis of that superiority-leaving aside the debated question of the quality of its water-was that its origin went back to Abrahamic days, when, as we have seen, it was miraculously discovered and saved the life of Ishmael. Zamzam, it was argued, was thus mentioned in the Bible, particularly if one accepted its identification with the miraculous life-saving spring mentioned in Genesis 21:19. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
45. Safa and Marwa ... This is as much as the Quran says. But the Muslim tradition offers two explanations for the practice, one "pagan" and one "Abrahamic." As we have already seen, the latter simply identifies Hagar's frantic search for water for the infant Ishmael with the ritual running between the hills before her providential discovery of the Zamzam. What is obviously an older and more primitive explanation has to do with two humans named Asaf and Na'ila, members of the jurhum: (The Quraysh) adopted Asaf (or Isaf) and Na'ila by the place of Zamzam, sacrificing beside them. They were (originally) a man and a woman of jurhum ... who copulated in the Ka'ba so God transformed them into two stones .... But God alone knows whether this is the truth. (Ibn Ishaq 1955: 37) Despite Ibn Ishaq's explicit misgivings, the colorful story became current in the Muslim authors and has been the point of departure for a wide variety of attempts to explain the reality, if any, behind the story and its connection with the "running" ritual .17 The names, which have to do with stones, appear to be Aramaic rather than Arabic and so have suggested foreign origins. What were transparently sacred stones, or perhaps stone idols-the jurhum story may reflect an etiological myth or be a distant echo of some form of ritual prostitution at the Ka'ba or nearby 48 were originally worshiped atop the "high places" of Safa and Marwa and then brought down somewhere in the vicinity of the Ka'ba by Qusayy himself. The circumambulation ritual continued to be performed at the two hills, but thereafter sacrifices were offered at the new sites of the idols. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
46. The construction of the Ka'ba is described in the Quran as the work of Abraham and Ishmael (2:127), and the circumstantial evidence suggests that this may have been a common belief among the pre-Islamic Quraysh. Yet there is no evidence, Quranic or circumstantial, that such a claim was made by Muhammad or had been accepted by the pagan Quraysh for the various Hajj rituals. Their association with Abraham appears to have occurred well after the Hajj had been embraced as an acceptable and meritorious way for a Muslim to worship God (Quran 2:197; 3:97). Absent the Abrahamic motif, the Hajj of Muhammad's Mecca disintegrates into an obscure series of acts centering not on Mecca but on the mountain called Arafat, eleven miles east of the city The Hajj, it has been maintained, originally had nothing to do with Mecca, as even the Islamic version of the ritual testifies: the climax of the Muslim Hajj was and is the "standing" at Arafat, followed by a procession to Mina and sacrifice there, after which the pilgrim was free to remove the ritual vestments." More, it was common knowledge that not the Quraysh but the Sufa, and later the Tamim, held the religious offices, the so-called "permission" (ijaza), at Arafat and Mina." And not only was Mecca not part of the original Hajj; there may have been no trading in the city in connection with its own rituals. Such, at any rate, one might conclude from the fact that the famous pilgrimage fairs-and Mecca is never numbered among them-are associated with Arafat and Mina and that the Quraysh seem to play no major role in them. 14 Thus the Meccan ritual was at some point joined to the Hajj, probably by Muhammad himself. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
47. It may well have been Muhammad himself who determined that the Arafat ritual was the "Great Hajj" and the Umra the "Lesser," a distinction nowhere apparent in pre-Islamic times. The distinction between Umra and Hajj is already present in the Quran (2:197), but the latter ritual, which became an obligation for every Muslim, may be a composite of several different cult activities some at Mecca, some at shrines outside the city, woven, whether by Muhammad or by someone earlier, into a single liturgical act. The "running" between Safa and Marwa, for example, originally belonged to neither the Umra nor the Hajj, and some Muslims in fact protested its inclusion in either, objections that were presumably silenced by the revelation of Quran 2:158. There is no evidence that Muhammad substantially altered any of the basic rituals of the Meccan pilgrimages, whereas he did modify the chaotic "overflowing" (ifada) from Arafat and the time of the departure from Muzdalifa for Mina." So we may assume that the donning of special clothing and the entering into a taboo state was practiced in pre-Islamic Mecca as it was elsewhere in the Semitic world. The ritual in the Haram had chiefly to do with a circumambulation of the Ka'ba, which in Islamic days included the "greeting of the Black Stone," a gesture of touching, pressing, or kissing with abundant precedents in pre-Islamic practice, though of a very different import, as we shall see. Outside the Haram, ritual required the devotee to run back and forth, another type of "circumambulation,"" between the two hills of Safa and Marwa, the sites of the well-known idols of Asaf and Na'ila in pre-Islamic days. This latter ritual ended with the offering of sacrifices at Marwa." (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
48. Nor could they circumambulate the House except in the garment of the Hums. If they had no such garments they had to go round naked. If any man or woman felt scruples when they had no Hums garments, then they could go round in their ordinary clothes; but they had to throw them away afterwards so that neither they nor anyone else could make use of them. The Arabs called these clothes "the cast-off " They imposed all these restrictions on the Arabs, who accepted them and halted at Arafat, hastened from it, and circumambulated the House naked. The men at least went naked, while the women laid aside all their clothes except a shift wide open back and front. (Ibn Ishaq 1955: 87-88) (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
49. The pagan Ka'bah, which became the Palladium of Islam, was an unpretentious cube-like (hence the name) building of primitive simplicity, originally roofless, serving as a shelter for a black meteorite which was venerated as a fetish. At the birth of Islam the structure was that rebuilt in 608 probably by an Abyssinian from the wreckage of a Byzantine or Abyssinian ship destroyed on the shore of the Red Sea. (History Of The Arabs, Philip K. Hitti, 1937, p 96-101)
50. Each pilgrim makes the tawaf or ritual circumambulation of the Ka'ba, a ceremony that has changed little, if at all, since pre-Islamic times. He will make seven circuits of the building, in an anti-clockwise movement, during which he will try to kiss, touch or otherwise greet the famous Black Stone which is set in a silver casing in the eastern corner. Muslims are taught that this is a fragment of the original temple, for the Ka'ba is said to have been rebuilt several times, before, during and after the Prophet's lifetime. (Islam in the World, Malise Ruthven, 1984, p 28-48)
51. I intend to put forward some of the evidence which has led me to think that the way in which the question is usually answered, both in the traditional Muslim literature and in works of modern scholarship, produces an inadequate account of the origins and development of the Muslim sanctuary, and I wish to propose the outlines of an alternative way of envisaging the islamization of the Meccan sanctuary. ... The process of islamization is not seen to involve any radical changes in the organization of the sanctuary, nor in the ceremonies associated with it. ... the Muslim sanctuary at Mecca continues to be seen as basically a continuation of the sanctuary of pagan times in the same place, and the islamization of that sanctuary continues to be associated with the prophetic career of Muhammad. (Studies On The First Century Of Islamic Society, Editor G.H.A. Juynboll, Chapter 2: The Origins of the Muslim Sanctuary at Mecca, G.R. Hawting, p23-48)
52. The evidence which I wish to concentrate upon in this paper, and which I think is difficult to reconcile with the generally accepted version of the islamization of the Meccan sanctuary, is provided by the use in the Muslim literature of certain terms or names which are connected with the sanctuary at Mecca. ... These names or terms, it must be emphasized, are now applied to some of the most important features of the Muslim sanctuary at Mecca, but the evidence seems to show that they originated independently of that sanctuary and only later came to be used to designate features of it. (Studies On The First Century Of Islamic Society, Editor G.H.A. Juynboll, Chapter 2: The Origins of the Muslim Sanctuary at Mecca, G.R. Hawting, p23-48)
53. Snouck Hurgronje's argument, which has become one of the most widely accepted ideas of modern scholarship on the beginnings of Islam, was that the adoption of the Meccan sanctuary by Muhammad has to be seen as a reaction to the rejection of him by the Jews of Medina. Only in the face of this, rejection, according to Snouck Hurgronje, did Muhammad move towards the arabization of his religion, a move in which the adoption of the Meccan sanctuary was an important step. And only at this time did Muhammad begin to formulate the doctrine that the Meccan sanctuary had been founded by Abraham, an idea which grew out of his contact with the Jews of Medina. (Studies On The First Century Of Islamic Society, Editor G.H.A. Juynboll, Chapter 2: The Origins of the Muslim Sanctuary at Mecca, G.R. Hawting, p23-48)
54. It seems that the Muslim sanctuary at Mecca is the result of a sort of compromise between a pre-existing pagan sanctuary and sanctuary ideas which had developed first in a Jewish milieu. ... At a certain stage in the development of the new religion the need arose to assert its independence, and one of the most obvious ways in which this could be done was by establishing a specifically Muslim sanctuary. (Studies On The First Century Of Islamic Society, Editor G.H.A. Juynboll, Chapter 2: The Origins of the Muslim Sanctuary at Mecca, G.R. Hawting, p23-48)
55. The Ka'ba itself is frequently said to have been demolished and rebuilt.7 The Black Stone is on a number of occasions removed from the Ka'ba and then restored to its place.8 The stone called Maqam Ibrahim is moved around by floods and by human actions.9 The well of Zamzam is "discovered" on two separate occasions.10 Al-Masjid al-Varam, explained as the mosque containing the Ka'ba at Mecca, is several times rebuilt and enlarged. (Studies On The First Century Of Islamic Society, Editor G.H.A. Juynboll, Chapter 2: The Origins of the Muslim Sanctuary at Mecca, G.R. Hawting, p23-48)
56. even Muslim tradition recognized that the history of the sanctuary and its incorporation by Islam could not be presented as a simple, straightforward development. ... Furthermore, the traditional material on the history of the sanctuary is hardly of a sort to inspire confidence in it as a record of historical events. Sometimes we find the same basic material being made to refer to two allegedly separate events (Studies On The First Century Of Islamic Society, Editor G.H.A. Juynboll, Chapter 2: The Origins of the Muslim Sanctuary at Mecca, G.R. Hawting, p23-48)

The second part of this member of Islam's statement has already been debunked in answers to SELF-DECEPTION PART 2, so refer back to that.

SELF-DECEPTION PART 4:

One member of Islam said, <<"This is the exactly how trouble began with the Jews. Because God promissed the land to Abraham and his decendants, the Jews became jealous and rebellious and wanted to claim the land all for themselves without giving any share to Ishmael's descendants. (They still don't want to share it with anyone.)

The trouble began in the next chapter with the realization that Abraham had as yet no children with which to fulfill the covenant!!! Before the covenent was made, Abraham had only one wife (Sarah). Both Abraham and Sarah were in old age (around 90) and therefore chances of producing a child now were very low.

"Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian maidservant named Hagar; so she said to Abram, "The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her." ( Genesis 16:1-2) Abram agreed and did what Sarai said.

So Sarah got Hagar married to Abraham, perhaps she could bear Abraham a son, and indeed she did bore him a son. He was called Ishmael and was therefore half Hebrew and half Egyptian (Abraham was Hebrew [i.e. not a Jew but more of an Arab] and Hagar was Egyptian [again not a Jewess]). When Hagar became pregnant, Sarah realised what was about to happen, that the son of Hagar would be the inheritor of Abraham, so she began to mock and abuse Hagar. This is when God sends an angel to Hagar with the message:

"You are now with child and you will have a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers." (Gen. 16:11)

Please note the context of the verse you just read and tell me how the words "he will be a wild donkey of a man" fit in this verse? God wants to heal the wounds of Hagar because she was being mocked and teased and he sends a message to calm her and give her hope and good news. Does it make sense therefore that God begins to say words like "He will be a wild donkey of a man" while trying to heal her wounds?? No it doesn't. It only makes sense that later on when the Jews realised the truth, they editted the books of moses and tried to make Ishmael (the first born of Abraham) look really bad.
(compare with this verse from the Holy Qur'an: Then woe to those who write the Scripture with their own hands and then say: "This is from Allah", to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby" [Holy Qur'an 2:75])


Now Isaac was born when Ishmael was 13 years old. When Isaac was around two years old, Sarah saw that Ishmael was mocking with him. So she got angry and became jealous of him and told Abraham to send Ishmael and Hagar away from here. So Hagar and Ishmael were forced to flees into the desert where she finds refuge beside a spring of water (called ZamZam water in Arabic):

The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac." [Genesis 21:8-10]

"... she [Sarah] said unto Abraham: 'Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac...' And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-sheba." (Genesis 21:9,10,14) (very sad)


So there was always jelousy on the parts of Jews and descendants of Isaac. Those verses speak about covenant being made to Abraham and his decendants and not to the Jews or Isaac alone. Don't get me wrong. We Muslims do not say that Isaac was not blessed. We say that he too was blessed and we believe him as one the most righteous prophets of God. We just don't like the fact that the Jews and Christians exclude Ishmael and his descendants from the covenents when in fact God Himself has mentioned in many verses in the Bible that he will make Ishmael a "great nation":">>

Now most of this has already been debunked in the answers to SELF-DECEPTION PART 2, so refer back to that.

Also, Numbers 34:1-29 makes clear that the everlasting covenant and land grant was CLEARLY ONLY WITH ISRAEL THE DESCENDENTS OF ISAAC AS FOLLOWS, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this is the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, even the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof:) 3 Then your south quarter shall be from the wilderness of Zin along by the coast of Edom, and your south border shall be the outmost coast of the salt sea eastward: 4 And your border shall turn from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim, and pass on to Zin: and the going forth thereof shall be from the south to Kadeshbarnea, and shall go on to Hazaraddar, and pass on to Azmon: 5 And the border shall fetch a compass from Azmon unto the river of Egypt, and the goings out of it shall be at the sea. 6 And as for the western border, ye shall even have the great sea for a border: this shall be your west border. 7 And this shall be your north border: from the great sea ye shall point out for you mount Hor: 8 From mount Hor ye shall point out your border unto the entrance of Hamath; and the goings forth of the border shall be to Zedad: 9 And the border shall go on to Ziphron, and the goings out of it shall be at Hazarenan: this shall be your north border. 10 And ye shall point out your east border from Hazarenan to Shepham: 11 And the coast shall go down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east side of Ain; and the border shall descend, and shall reach unto the side of the sea of Chinnereth eastward: 12 And the border shall go down to Jordan, and the goings out of it shall be at the salt sea: this shall be your land with the coasts thereof round about. 13 And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the LORD commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe: 14 For the tribe of the children of Reuben according to the house of their fathers, and the tribe of the children of Gad according to the house of their fathers, have received their inheritance; and half the tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance: 15 The two tribes and the half tribe have received their inheritance on this side Jordan near Jericho eastward, toward the sunrising. 16 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 17 These are the names of the men which shall divide the land unto you: Eleazar the priest, and Joshua the son of Nun. 18 And ye shall take one prince of every tribe, to divide the land by inheritance. 19 And the names of the men are these: Of the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh. 20 And of the tribe of the children of Simeon, Shemuel the son of Ammihud. 21 Of the tribe of Benjamin, Elidad the son of Chislon. 22 And the prince of the tribe of the children of Dan, Bukki the son of Jogli. 23 The prince of the children of Joseph, for the tribe of the children of Manasseh, Hanniel the son of Ephod. 24 And the prince of the tribe of the children of Ephraim, Kemuel the son of Shiphtan. 25 And the prince of the tribe of the children of Zebulun, Elizaphan the son of Parnach. 26 And the prince of the tribe of the children of Issachar, Paltiel the son of Azzan. 27 And the prince of the tribe of the children of Asher, Ahihud the son of Shelomi. 28 And the prince of the tribe of the children of Naphtali, Pedahel the son of Ammihud. 29 These are they whom the LORD commanded to divide the inheritance unto the children of Israel in the land of Canaan." (AV). So it is easy to see that their claims are just delusional and have no basis in fact, reality, the truth.

CONCLUSION:

Thus as can clearly be seen, The first granting of title occurred around 1,500 B.C. when the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael gave land title to the ancient Hebrews, nation of Israel, to perpetuity in an everlasting covenant. Before that no one had title, but only possession of land; to wit, that was the beginning of land titlement. And this was by the highest possible authority of all, the creator of all there is, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, the highest authority in the universe so his absolute right to grant title to whom he pleased is of course beyond challenge.

So why the argument over whom Palestine rightfully belongs today? Because many Ishmaelites, the greedy ones, want to destroy world peace and tranquility due to their greed for land that is NOT theirs. The Ishmaelites control over 98 percent of the middle east, and some are so greedy they do not want their brother tribe, the Hebrews, even to have the less than two (2) percent of the land that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael gave to them in perpetuity. This is the crux of the problem - GREED.


Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Possession is NOT The Same As Title to Land:

INTRODUCTION:

One can have possession without having a valid title to land. A good example is that of nomadic tribes in the middle east and elsewhere such as the Berbers and the New World Indians, they had possession, but not title to the land they roamed. [Special note - in the early 1800's some New World Indians were granted title in the form of a titled reservation.]

The first granting of title occurred around 1,500 B.C. when the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael gave land title to the ancient Hebrews, nation of Israel, to perpetuity. Before that no one had title, but only possession of land; to wit, that was the beginning of land titlement. And this was by the highest possible authority of all, the creator of all there is, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, the highest authority in the universe so his absolute right to grant title to whom he pleased is of course beyond challenge.

Also, the soundness of title depends on several factors or conditions precedent:

First, the higher the position of the granter the more legitimate the title is with the highest granter being, of course, the creator of all there is, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, the supreme being. This followed by Emperors, Kings or Caliphs, and Presidents or Sultans in that order.

Second, the earliest granting of title takes precedence over later grants of title.

SPECIFICS AND EXAMPLES:

Now let's look at what land title is from an encyclopedia, <<" Title is a legal term for an owner's interest in a piece of property. It may also refer to a formal document that serves as evidence of ownership. Conveyance of the document may be required in order to transfer ownership in the property to another person. Title is distinct from possession, a right that often accompanies ownership but is not necessarily sufficient to prove it. In many cases, both possession and title may be transferred independently of each other. [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia].">>

Let's illustrate this with an example provided by an encyclopedia, << The three elements of title are possession, the right of possession, and the right of property. Possession is the actual holding of a thing, with or without any right thereto. The right of possession is the right to legitimacy of possession (with or without actual possession), the evidence for which is such that the law will uphold it unless a better claim is proven. The right of property is that right which, if all relevant facts were known (and allowed), would defeat all other claims. Each of these may be in a different person.

For example, suppose A steals from B, what B had previously bought in good faith from C, which C had earlier stolen from D, which had been a heirloom of D's family for generations, but had originally been stolen centuries earlier (though this fact is now forgotten by all) from E. Here A has the possession, B has an apparent right of possession (as evidenced by the purchase), D has the absolute right of possession (being the best claim that can be proven), and the heirs of E, if they knew it, have the right of property, which they cannot prove. Good title consists in uniting these three (possession, right of possession, and right of property) in the same person(s).[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia].">>

Now note, something could have been stolen, squatted on centuries earlier, illegally taken in unlawful warfare, etc., but that does NOT give the person in charge title in any way.

A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF POSESSION STOLEN IN WARFARE:

A Roman emperor had conveyed title to land in Spain to his subjects who were in possession in the early part of the common error, but in 711 A.D. much of this land was stolen from the possessors. Let's look at the historical notes on this from a Muslim source, www.sunnahonline.com , <<" By 700 CE, with famine in the Toledo, strife among the aristocracy and chaos throughout the peninsula, the Visigothic kingdom was falling apart. This paved the way for the Muslim invasion of 711, which set Spain's destiny quite apart from the rest of Europe.

Following the death of the Prophet (saaw) in 632 CE, the Arabs had spread through the Middle East and North Africa, bringing Islam with them. According to myth, they were ushered onto the Iberian Peninsula by the sexual exploits of the last Visigoth king, Roderick. Ballads and chronicles relate how he had seduced the young Florinda, daughter of Julian, Visigothic governor of Ceuta in north Africa: and how Julian sought revenge by approaching the Muslims with a plan to invade Spain. In dull fact, Julian probably just wanted help in a struggle for the Visigoth throne.

In 711 CE Tariq ibn Ziyad, the governor of Tangiers, landed in Gibraltar with around 10,000 men, mostly Berbers (indigenous North Africans). He had some of Roderick's Visigoth rivals as allies. In the same or following year in the Cadiz province, Roderick's army was decimated and he is thought to have drowned as he fled. The Visigothic survivors fled to the north of Spain, and within a few years, the Muslims had taken over the rest of the Iberian Peninsula bar a few areas in the Asturian Mountains bordering France" [source - www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/0075_intro.htm]>>; these Muslims became possessors of the land of Spain, but they did NOT hold title, and were eventually thrown out and the land returned to those holding legitimate title with this being concluded around 1492 A.D. A wrongful possession rectified.

This same wrongful situation occurred elsewhere with possession being gained once more in warfare and violence, now let's look at another example from a Muslim source, www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/ , <<" In April 1453, the Turks laid siege to Constantinople. Despite the heavy Turkish bombardment of the walls, the inhabitants of the city were able to repair the fortifications every night. The Byzantines were exhausted but took solace in the old legend that Constantinople would never fall while the Moon was waxing. Then, on the night of 22 May, the Moon rose in eclipse and their morale was crushed.
Mohammed knew of the legend and waited a few days before starting a fresh attack. During the battle a small gate was left open by accident but it was all the Turks needed. The sack of Constantinople lasted three days, as the Moon waned." [source - www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/]>>; unfortunately the legitimate title holders have not regained rightful possession to their legitimate property as yet from those holding possession by force of arms. Yet the property and title really belongs to the Byzantines who centuries earlier had been given title by a Roman Emperor [Note, earlier title granting takes precedence over later title granting.].

CONCLUSION:

All individuals in adverse possession of land, i.e., lacking title to same, should either vacate that to which they do NOT have title and/or make arrangements with the legitimate title holder to either lease/rent or be given that to which they do NOT have title. A good example of ones in wrongful possession of land to which others hold title are the Palestine's in the Gaza strip and the west bank. This is a strange case as the rightful title holders, the ancestors, of the ancient Hebrews, Israelites, are willing to leave them in possession of these two areas, but the ungrateful illegal occupiers only want to commit violence and crimes against the benevolent legitimate title holders. A recent news account clearly shows the wrong heart condition of these none title holders. Now let's look at an article from the New York Times of 06/29/2006 that speaks for itself with respect who is trying to provoke war:
<<" Hamas Provokes a Fight

Published: June 29, 2006
The Palestinians who futilely threw up sand berms on Gaza's main roads to deflect Israeli troop movements were building their defenses in the wrong direction. The responsibility for this latest escalation rests squarely with Hamas, whose military wing tunneled into Israel on Sunday, killed two Israeli soldiers and kidnapped another. This was a follow-up to a declaration earlier this month by Hamas's political leadership that the group's 16-month intermittent cease-fire would no longer be observed.

Under the circumstances, an Israeli military response was inevitable. It should also be as restrained as possible. Israel does not seem to want to reoccupy Gaza, but its reported detention of several cabinet ministers in the West Bank is unsettling. Bitterness and distrust on both sides are sure to increase, and the already dim prospects for a return to peace negotiations will diminish even further.

Ironically, Hamas has chosen this bleak moment to finally endorse a document that implicitly recognizes Israel within its pre-1967 borders. In a different context that would represent progress. But in a week in which Hamas's military wing has crossed those very borders, it is hard to draw much encouragement.

The renewed presence of Israeli forces in Gaza may give a short-term boost to Hamas's local popularity. But once the immediate adrenaline rush wears off, the Palestinians who elected Hamas, and the Arab nations on which it now depends for financial survival, need to survey the wreckage and draw the obvious conclusions. When Hamas was only an opposition movement, its provocative behavior was a major impediment to peace. As a governing party, it is far worse.

Contrary to the hopes of many outsiders, five months in government has failed to educate Hamas to the reality of the world the Palestinians live in. Hamas has merely assumed the political privileges of power without accepting the minimal responsibilities that go with it.

If things go on like this, Palestinians can look forward to endless rounds of reckless Hamas provocations and inexorable Israeli responses. That is why things must not be allowed to go on like this. It is not just Israel that needs to be delivering that message to Hamas."[source - Editorial - The New York Times on June 29, 2006 ]>>.

Nothing more need be said about the wrong and hateful heart condition of these none title holders as the article from the New York Times says it all.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

World Gone Mad – Lebanon a Case Study

INTRODUCTION:

Are we living in the last days foretold at Matthew 24:7, “For nation shall rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places.” (The Darby Bible; DB). The 20th. Century was the most murderous period in recorded history and the beginning of the 21th is already starting to show a worst record. The Worldwatch Institute states: “Three times as many people fell victim to war in the 20th century as in all the wars from the first century AD to 1899.” Even if we know the sorrow of losing one’s loved ones in warfare, it is still hard to imagine such misery and pain multiplied millions of times.

What is behind all this hate and turmoil? The source is given at Ephesians 6:12-13, “because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies.
13 For this reason take to you the panoply of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having accomplished all things, to stand.” (AV).

A lot of this hate and turmoil today is being caused by members of a religion that claims to be a religion of peace, but spews out hatters and those causing turmoil as if there is no tomorrow. In this case study, we will learn the facts through a case study of the recent Lebanese-Israel battle of July-August 2006.

A LOOK AT THE FACTS WITH RESPECT A RELIGION THAT CLAIMS TO BE A RELIGION OF PEACE:

Let's see what the Weekend Australian (newspaper) had to say on the matter,

" Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other?
Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. (December 16, 2005) How can we tolerate such intolerance?" [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]

Now, let's consider the facts as continually revealed in the world news that shows if any thing that the newspaper editor may have been a little low when he said 95 percent of the violence in the world was caused by Muslims. Let's look at some facts:

(1) World Trade Center - 9/11 - unprovoked attack and mass murder by Muslims.
(2) London Subway Bombing by Muslims
(3) Continued mosque bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(4) Suicide bombings in Israel by Muslims.
(5) Suicide bombing of a wedding reception in Jordan by Muslims.
(6) Daily roadside bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(7) Train bombings in Spain my Muslims.
(8) Riots and car burnings and murders in France by Muslims.
(9) Suicide bombings in Iraq by Muslims, a daily occurrence.
(10) Car and truck bombings in Iraq by Muslims, a daily occurrence.
(11) Unprovoked murder of 8 Israelis and the kidnapping of 2 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Lebanon and Israel by Muslims.
(12) Unprovoked murder of 2 Israelis and the kidnapping of 1 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Gaza by Muslims.
(13) Bombing of restaurants and cafes in Bali, Indonesia by Muslims.
(14) Bombing of a trains in India by Muslims.
(15) Take over o***rammar school in Russia resulting in the deaths of many students by Muslims.
(16) Attempted shoe-bombing of a plain by a Muslim.
(17) Conspiracy to bomb about 10 planes going from UK by Muslims.
(18) Attempted murder of several Indian politicians in Kashmir by Muslims.
(19) Many violent acts by Muslims in Afghanistan, a daily occurrence.
(20) Murder o***irl by Shiite Muslims in Iran.
(21) And the list could go on and on, get it?

Says a lot about a religion that claims to be a religion of peace, but spawns those filled with hate and violence. Obviously, there is a major problem here that is NOT being effectively dealt with. As one forward looking group of Muslims that are NOT hiding from the facts said, <<”Muslims must look inward and put a stop to many of our religious leaders who spend most of their sermons teaching hatred, intolerance and violent jihad. We should not be afraid to admit that as Muslims we have a problem with violent extremism. We should not be afraid to admit that so many of our religious leaders belong behind bars and not behind a pulpit. Only moderate Muslims can challenge and defeat extremist Muslims. We can no longer afford to be silent. If we remain silent to the extremism within our community then we should not expect anyone to listen to us when we complain of stereotyping and discrimination by non-Muslims; we should not be surprised when the world treats all of us as terrorists; we should not be surprised when we are profiled at airports. Simply put, not only do Muslims need to join the war against terror, we need to take the lead in this war.” [source - Free Muslim Coalition, www.freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=148] >>.

A CASE STUDY OF MUSLIM (Shia) CAUSED VIOLENCE IN ISRAEL-LEBANON IN 2006:

Status quo, For years there has been no serious violence along the boarder between Israel and Lebanon and the neighbors for the most part have co-existed peacefully. The only violence had been occasional rockets shot at Israel by a criminal organization, Hezbollah who the Lebanese government had given sanctuary. Lebanon had been warned by the United Nations to disarm all militias such as the criminal organization of Hezbollah, but did not do so.

Disruption of status quo, In mid July 2006 the evil criminal organization of Hezbollah choose to disrupt the mostly peaceful status quo and pull the proverbial trigger to ignite a major battle due to their unwarranted hate and lust for violence.

How did they pull the proverbial trigger and with what results? In mid July they sent a group of murders and kidnappers across an international boundary to murder eight Israelis and to kidnap two Israelis. This was the wicked spark that ignited a real battle that took over 900 lives and caused major property damage.

Of course, the criminal organization of Hezbollah is completely responsible for all that resulted from their unwarranted criminal act. However, many in IslamT clearly show they have the inability to distinguish between cause and effect in the crisis between Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Israel (year 2006). Many point to the number killed and which side did it, i.e., hospital in Israel and town of Qana in Lebanon, but ignore the fact that both are but effects of a causative act. Now the causative act that resulted in so much adverse effects, destruction and death, was a surprise unprovoked across boarder attack by a criminal organization, Hezbollah, given tacit approval by the government of Lebanon who even permits members of this group to be members of its parliament. So this attack was the 'trigger' and/or cause responsible for all the adverse effects, death and destruction, that results; therefore, total responsibility for all the effects rest solely on this criminal organization and the Lebanese government for permitting their operation in Lebanon.

WHAT IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF THIS WICKED ACT BY HEZBOLLAH?

Let’s look at the facts, Many in Islam hold the belief in ERROR put forth by greedy Ishmalites, that hold over 98 percent of the entire middle east, yet are so greedy they do not want their brother tribe, the Hebrews to occupy the less than 2 percent given them by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael that Ishmael. Why? Simply, they do NOT want to recognize who really was the promised seed; whereas, in reality it was Isaac as made clear at Genesis 17:19-21, "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." (AV). So this scripture makes it clear that Isaac is the line through which the covenant is made, and NOT Ishmael, who was only stated to become a 'great nation.'

Therefore, greed and hate is at the root of this turmoil between Israel-Lebanon, and it is greed of members of a wicked criminal organization, Hezbollah, and their backers.

THE GREAT FARCE:

Now Hezbollah is committing a great farce by telling many Lebanese that they will rebuild south Lebanon when in reality NO REBUILDING WOULD BE NECESSARY if Hezbollah had NOT pulled the proverbial fuse and caused the battle in the first place due to their hate and love for violence. Also, Hezbollah is NOT replacing the lives that were lost due to their wicked acts.

Yet many Many overlook the fact, the reality, that no damage would have been done to Lebanon if the criminal organization Hezbollah that they gave sanctuary had not sent a group over into Israel to murder and kidnap Israelis. So when looking at reality what is so great about them helping to rebuild the damage that resulted from their criminal act? It is nothing but a hollow sham to obfuscate the fact that they, alone, are responsible for all that occurred. Everyone should wake up to reality per John 8:32, “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (DB).

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Hezbollah is Responsible For All and Should Pay For All:

Many overlook the fact, the reality, that no damage would have been done to Lebanon if the criminal organization Hezbollah that they gave sanctuary had not sent a group over into Israel to murder and kidnap Israelis. So what is so great about them helping to rebuild the damage that resulted from their criminal act?[/quote]

The answer to one poster’s question on forum should be self evident,

AND WHAT DO U HAVE AGAINST HIZBULLAH?

Same as I have against any criminal organization that is full of hate and violence and that triggers tragic events which result in mass property damage, the loss of over 900 lives, and that upset the tranquility of the world, so get real.

You overlook the fact, the reality, that no damage would have been done to Lebanon if the criminal organization Hezbollah that they gave sanctuary had not sent a group over into Israel to murder and kidnap Israelis. So what is so great about them helping to rebuild the damage that resulted from their criminal act? Kind-a sick isn’t it?

Now why should the burden for rebuilding Lebanon fall on the world? It should be the sole responsibility of the criminal organization of Hezbollah as they brought all the destruction on Lebanon and should bear all the responsibility for their actions.

Let's face it, Islam's SOP is the source of much of the strife of today:

Let's see what the Weekend Australian (newspaper) had to say on the matter,

" Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other?
Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. (December 16, 2005) How can we tolerate such intolerance?" [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]

Says it all, so clearly Islam should be redefined as something other than a religion. So it is very necessary that this greed and hate be addressed. Remember, Matthew 5:9, "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Ishmael The Wild One Who Became A Great Nation

INTRODUCTION:

Abraham had two sons, Isaac by his wife Sarah, and Ishmael by his wife's servant, Hagar the concubine or secondary wife. His youngest son, Isaac, was the one through whom the everlasting covenant was to be established as recorded at Genesis 9:16, "And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); and Genesis 17:7, " And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee." (AV); and Genesis 17:19, "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.' (AV).

However, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael told , Hagar the concubine or secondary wife, his wife's servant at Genesis 16:11, "And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction." (AV); and Genesis 17:20 says, "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation." (AV). So Ishmael was to become a great nation, but the everlasting covenant was to come through his half brother's line and not his.

Now, Ishmael had twelve sons as recorded at Genesis 25:12-16, "Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham: 13 And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, 14 And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, 15 Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: 16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations." (AV).

Ishmael grew up a true child of the desert, wild and wayward, and not interested in spiritual things as was his half brother Isaac.

ISHMAEL'S LIFE:

The Concise Bible Dictionary says, <<" Son of Abraham and Hagar the bondmaid of Sarah. Before he was born, when Hagar ran away because of the severity of her mistress, the angel of the Lord appeared to her, and told her to return to her mistress: her seed should be numberless, and she was to call her son's name Ishmael, which signifies 'El shall hear.' He would be a wild man, his hand would be against every man, and every man's hand against him. Abraham prayed that Ishmael might live before God, but typically he represents the seed of Abraham according to the flesh, hence though God answered that He would bless Ishmael, and multiply him exceedingly, he should also beget twelve princes, and God would make him a great nation; yet the covenant should be established with Isaac. When Ishmael was thirteen years old Abraham circumcised him, and all the men of his house. In this act Abraham acknowledged in faith that the blessing asked for his natural seed could not be had through the strength of the flesh: all the mercies of God are secured in resurrection.

At the 'great feast' when Isaac, the child born after the Spirit, was weaned, Ishmael mocked, and Sarah besought Abraham to cast out both mother and son. This was grievous to Abraham, but God, having approved the suggestion, he rose early in the morning, and providing them with some bread and a bottle of water he sent them away. The water was soon consumed, and Hagar in despair placed Ishmael under a shrub, and departed so as not to see him die. The angel of God called to her, shewed her a well, and the child was saved. God was with the lad, for he was the seed of Abraham; he dwelt in the wilderness and became an archer. At first he was located in the wilderness of Beer-sheba and afterwards at Paran, a region between Canaan and mount Sinai. His mother chose a woman of Egypt for his wife. His twelve sons are recorded, and their 'towns' and 'castles,' or encampments, according to their nations, are spoken of. Ishmael was present at the burial of his father and lived 137 years. #Ge 16:11-16 17:18-26 25:9-17 28:9 36:3 1Ch 1:28-31." [source - Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish]>>.

And,

The Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary says of Ishmael, <<"Abraham's eldest son, by Hagar the concubine #Ge 16:15 17:23 He was born at Mamre, when Abraham was eighty-six years of age, eleven years after his arrival in Canaan #Ge 16:3 21:5 At the age of thirteen he was circumcised #Ge 17:25 He grew up a true child of the desert, wild and wayward. On the occasion of the weaning of Isaac his rude and wayward spirit broke out in expressions of insult and mockery #Ge 21:9,10 and Sarah, discovering this, said to Abraham, "Expel this slave and her son." Influenced by a divine admonition, Abraham dismissed Hagar and her son with no more than a skin of water and some bread. The narrative describing this act is one of the most beautiful and touching incidents of patriarchal life #Ge 21:14-16 See Easton on HAGAR 1583 Ishmael settled in the land of Paran, a region lying between Canaan and the mountains of Sinai; and "God was with him, and he became a great archer" #Ge 21:9-21 He became a great desert chief, but of his history little is recorded. He was about ninety years of age when his father Abraham died, in connection with whose burial he once more for a moment reappears. On this occasion the two brothers met after being long separated. "Isaac with his hundreds of household slaves, Ishmael with his troops of wild retainers and half-savage allies, in all the state of a Bedouin prince, gathered before the cave of Machpelah, in the midst of the men of Heth, to pay the last duties to the 'father of the faithful,' would make a notable subject for an artist" #Ge 25:9 Of the after events of his life but little is known. He died at the age of one hundred and thirty-seven years, but where and when are unknown #Ge 25:17 He had twelve sons, who became the founders of so many Arab tribes or colonies, the Ishmaelites, who spread over the wide desert spaces of Northern Arabia from the Red Sea to the Euphrates #Ge 37:25,27,28 39:1 "their hand against every man, and every man's hand against them." [source - Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary]>>.

HAGAR THE CONCUBINE OR SECONDARY WIFE THE MOTHER OF ISHMAEL:

Let's look at the life of the mother is Ishmael the concubine or secondary wife, the servant of Abraham's wife Sarah, so as to better understand why he was conceived and later sent away. Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary says, <<" Hagar, Flight, or, according to others, stranger, an Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid #Ge 16:1 21:9,10 whom she gave to Abraham (q.v.) as a secondary wife #Ge 16:2 When she was about to become a mother she fled from the cruelty of her mistress, intending apparently to return to her relatives in Egypt, through the desert of Shur, which lay between. Wearied and worn she had reached the place she distinguished by the name of Beer-lahai-roi ("the well of the visible God"), where the angel of the Lord appeared to her. In obedience to the heavenly visitor she returned to the tent of Abraham, where her son Ishmael was born, and where she remained #Ge 16:16 till after the birth of Isaac, the space of fourteen years. Sarah after this began to vent her dissatisfaction both on Hagar and her child. Ishmael's conduct was insulting to Sarah, and she insisted that he and his mother should be dismissed. This was accordingly done, although with reluctance on the part of Abraham #Ge 21:14 They wandered out into the wilderness, where Ishmael, exhausted with his journey and faint from thirst, seemed about to die. Hagar "lifted up her voice and wept," and the angel of the Lord, as before, appeared unto her, and she was comforted and delivered out of her distresses #Ge 21:18,19 Ishmael afterwards established himself in the wilderness of Paran, where he married an Egyptian #Ge 21:20,21 "Hagar" allegorically represents the Jewish church #Ga 4:24 in bondage to the ceremonial law; while "Sarah" represents the Christian church, which is free." [source - Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary]>>.

WHY THE DISMISSAL OF HAGAR?

Let's look at the facts as many do NOT understand why Hagar and her son, Ishmael, were dismissed from the household of Abraham. Let's see what the Commentary on the Old Testament, 1973, has to say, <<"A year later Isaac was born; Ishmael was now 14. (Ge 16:16; 21:5) Five years after that, in 1913 B.C.E., on the day of Isaac's being weaned, Ishmael was caught "poking fun" at his younger half brother. (Ge 21:8, 9) This was no innocent child's play on the part of Ishmael. Rather, as implied by the next verse in the account, it may have involved a taunting of Isaac over heirship. The apostle Paul says these events were "a symbolic drama" and shows that the mistreatment of Isaac by the half-blooded Egyptian Ishmael was persecution. Hence, this was the beginning of the foretold 400 years of Israel's affliction that ended with deliverance from Egyptian bondage in 1513 B.C.E.-Ga 4:22-31; Ge 15:13; Ac 7:6; see ISAAC.
Ishmael's demonstration of scorn toward Isaac led to the dismissal of him and his mother from Abraham's household, but not without provisions for their journey. Abraham "took bread and a skin water bottle and gave it to Hagar, setting it upon her shoulder, and the child, and then dismissed her." (Ge 21:14) Some have interpreted this to mean that Ishmael, now 19 years old, was also placed on the back of Hagar, and indeed this is the way some translations read. (JB, Mo, Bagster's LXX) Certain scholars, however, consider the phrase "setting it upon her shoulder" as only parenthetical, inserted to explain how the bread and water were carried, and so, if this phrase is placed in parentheses or set off by commas, the difficulty is removed. Professors Keil and Delitzsch assert that the expression "and the child" depends upon the sentence's principal verb "took," not on the verb "gave" or the word "setting." This tie-in of "the child" with "took" is made by the conjunction "and." The thought, therefore, is this: Abraham took bread and water and gave them to Hagar (placing them on her shoulder) and took the child and also gave it to her"[source - Commentary on the Old Testament, 1973, Vol. I, The First Book of Moses, pp. 244, 245]>>.

And,

Cook's Commentary says, <<" Certain Targums, as well as the Syriac Penutsta, at Genesis 21:9, give Ishmael's remarks the sense of "deriding." Concerning tsa·chaq', "It probably means in this passage, as it has generally been understood, 'mocking laughter.' As Abraham had laughed for joy concerning Isaac, and Sarah had laughed incredulously, so now Ishmael laughed in derision, and probably in a persecuting and tyrannical spirit." Deciding the matter, the inspired apostle Paul clearly shows that Ishmael's treatment of Isaac was affliction, persecution, not childlike play. (Ga 4:29) Certain commentators, in view of Sarah's insistence, in the next verse (Ge 21:10), that "the son of this slave girl is not going to be an heir with my son, with Isaac," suggest that Ishmael (14 years Isaac's senior) perhaps quarreled and taunted Isaac with regard to heirship." [resource - Cook's Commentary by F. C. Cook]>>.

GREED ON THE PART OF MANY OF TODAY'S ISHMAELITES:

Just as their ancestor, Ishmael, was a wild man as brought out by his name which meant, <<" name Ishmael, which signifies 'El shall hear.' He would be a wild man, his hand would be against every man, and every man's hand against him. " [resource - Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish]>>, many of his modern day descendents are wild and greedy and lusted for violence. This fact was noted by an Australian newspaper as follows, <<"" Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other?
Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. (December 16, 2005) How can we tolerate such intolerance?" [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]>>. Now some will say, not all Muslims are Ishmaelites which is true; however, most of those now being greedy and causing world turmoil are descendents if Ishmael.

Let's look at the facts, Many in Islam hold the belief in ERROR put forth by greedy Ishmalites, that hold over 98 percent of the entire middle east, yet are so greedy they do not want their brother tribe, the Isralites, the descendents of Isaac, to occupy the less than 2 percent given them by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael that Ishmael. Why? Simply, they do NOT want to recognize who really was the promised seed; whereas, in reality it was Isaac as made clear at Genesis 17:19-21, "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." (AV). So this scripture makes it clear that Isaac is the line through which the covenant is made, and NOT Ishmael, who was only stated to become a 'great nation.'

No where is this fact more obvious than with respect the Israel-Lebanon conflict of July/August 2006. Greed and hate is at the root of this turmoil between Israel-Lebanon, and it is greed of members Islam who have the spirit of Ishmael in them.

CONCLUSION AND THE BIG QUESTION:

Now the question is why do the greedy Ishmaelites have so much hate for their brother tribe, the Israelites, and so much desire to destroy world tranquility; whereas, they should have a love for their brother tribe, the Israelites, the descendents of Abraham through Isaac and the tribe with which the everlasting covenant was made, and should want peace? At present, many of these greedy Ishmaleites, I am referring only to the greedy ones,falsely claim they have no jobs/employment and blame it on their brother tribe, the Israelites; whereas, the blame actually belongs on the greedy Ishmaleites who would rather spend their time hating and their money on implements of violence instead using their time and resources for the setting up businesses and factories to provide employment. Something is wrong with them for letting greed destroy common sense and a chance to progress, but then they are following in the path of their ancestor, Ishmael.

Why are they so greedy and why do they love violence and putting others down instead of tranquility and friendly relationships in keeping with what Jesus (Yeshua) said at Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); and Matthew 5:43, " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy." (AV); and Matthew 19:19, "Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and Matthew 22:39, " And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and Matthew 12:31, "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (AV); and Romans 13:9, "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); Galatians 5:14, " For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and James 2:8, "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" (AV).

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

The Face of World Terrorism and Violence

INTRODUCTION:

Today, all we hear on the world news is acts of violence and terrorism. When we look at who these people are that are committing violence and/or acts of terrorism and/or plots of terrorism, we invariable find that the source is individuals/groups who are a part of Islam.

Now, why is this? It is because many individuals in Islam are full of hate and a lust for violence; whereas, members of other so called religious groups in our modern age are concerned about going about their business and making a living, enjoying life, and practicing live-and-let live. Others, not members of Islam, do not plan to hurt others and just want to live in peace and this includes the Israelites.

When these haters and individuals who have a lust for violence do NOT have any members of what ever group they hate, they turn on each other as shown by the world news. This fact was clearly shown in an article by London Times Writer, By Ashraf Khalil, A Times Staff Writer in his article of August 24, 2006 as follows:
<<" KHAN YUNIS, Gaza Strip - It's blazing hot every day; the electricity comes and goes. And when there's no electricity, there's no water. Nobody has any money, but everyone, it seems, has a weapon... doctors, police and mental health professionals here. Men are beating their wives and fighting with their neighbors. Families are living on the generosity of relatives and credit from merchants, both of which are starting to run dry. Youth are turning to petty crime. In Khan Yunis, a gritty southern Gaza city that features a thriving gunrunning trade, Brig. Gen. Mustafa Wafi's police force struggles to keep up. "People have a lot of weapons, and the slightest things set them off," he said... But so far, the citizens of Gaza haven't turned on the new government.

Instead, they may be turning on one another.

Thousands of young Palestinian men belong to armed militant groups. The militarization of Gazan society makes it more likely that otherwise harmless scuffles will turn deadly.

In a personal conflict, "they end up using the weapons that they have to defend against the occupation against each other," said Abu Thaer, a spokesman for the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade militia."[source - article at London Times Web Site By Ashraf Khalil, A Times Staff Writer on August 24, 2006]>>.

INTERESTING FACT:

These haters and individuals who have a lust for violence may not have a job or enough money to feed their family, but they always have money for more bullets and other weaponry. Strange, but true.

They rail against poor economic opportunity, but instead of trying to improve their lot by investing in business and industry, they spend their money and time hating and planning/committing acts of violence. Of course, what is needed are some level headed individuals who are not haters that are willing to spend their money and time on productive endeavors.

Take the negative Palestinians relationship with the Israelites as an example. If they would stop hating the Israelites and start working with them to improve their lot, the Gaza strip for example, would become an economic powerhouse and the same holds true for south Lebanon. The Israelites are excellent businessman and industrialist, and if these two groups courted their assistance and cooperated with them instead of always trying to start conflicts with them, the entire region would prosper. Remember, all money spent on weapons and hatred is money NOT spent on productive efforts, i.e., increasing the Gross National Product and/or the Gross Regional Product.

In ancient times, Israelite King David and the King of Lebanon worked together and this proved to be to the mutual benefit of both parties. The same would prove true also in the modern world in the State of Israel, the Palestinians, and the Lebanese worked together; they would all mutually benefit.

Why do the Palestinians and the Lebanese not want to form a mutually beneficial economic situation for all by working together with the State of Israel? Simple, they would rather hate Israel and take their lust for violence out on Israel or each other when Israel is not available. This is just plain stupid, and beneficial to no one.

IS THIS A CHARACTER DEFECT WITH REGARD THE DESCENDENTS OF ISHMAEL?

Actually this counterproductive hating and a lust for violence appears to be a character defect with regard to the descendents of Ishmael and has even rubbed off on other Muslims.

<<"Ishmael grew up a true child of the desert, wild and wayward, and not interested in spiritual things as was his half brother Isaac."[resource - Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary]>>. So it is quite possible that this counterproductive trait was inherited. And the Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish says, "<<He would be a wild man, his hand would be against every man, and every man's hand against him." [source - The Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish]>>, confirms this trait of Ishmael. Now if you look at many members of Islam today you can clearly see this trait, and it can clearly be seen in the criminal organization of Hezbollah to whom the Lebanese gave sanctuary and in many of the Palestinians of today. Of course, this would also apply to many Islamic groups.

Even a brief look at world news in the last five years clearly indicates this character defect of Ishmael has been carried over to his modern descendents and those whom it 'rubbed' of on.

Now, let's consider the facts as continually revealed in the world news that shows if any thing that the newspaper editor may have been a little low when he said 95 percent of the violence in the world was caused by Muslims. Let's look at some facts:

(1) World Trade Center - 9/11 - unprovoked attack and mass murder by Muslims.
(2) London Subway Bombing by Muslims
(3) Continued mosque bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(4) Suicide bombings in Israel by Muslims.
(5) Suicide bombing of a wedding reception in Jordan by Muslims.
(6) Daily roadside bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(7) Train bombings in Spain my Muslims.
(8) Riots and car burnings and murders in France by Muslims.
(9) Suicide bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(10) Car and truck bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(11) Unprovoked murder of 8 Israelis and the kidnapping of 2 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Lebanon and Israel by Muslims.
(12) Unprovoked murder of 2 Israelis and the kidnapping of 1 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Gaza by Muslims.
(13) Bombing of restaurants and cafes in Bali, Indonesia by Muslims.
(14) Bombing of a trains in India by Muslims.
(15) Take over o***rammar school in Russia resulting in the deaths of many students by Muslims.
(16) Attempted shoebombing of a plain by a Muslim.
(17) Conspiracy to bomb about 10 planes going from UK by Muslims.
(18) Attempted murder of several Indian politicians in Kashmir by Muslims.
(19) Many violent acts by Muslims in Afghanistan.
(20) Murder o***irl by Shiite Muslims in Iran.
(21) Conspiracy to bomb trains in Germany - as previously posted for you.
(22) And the list could go on and on, get it?

OF COURSE NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE AFFLICTED WITH THIS CHARACTER DEFECT AND CONCLUSION:

One group of honest Muslims admitted that evil Muslims were the cause for world terror and most of the world's violence, and issued an apology, <<"We are so Sorry for 9-11, By Kamal Nawash in 2004, This September 11 marks the third unforgettable anniversary of the worst mass murder in American history.

After September 11, many in the Muslim world chose denial and hallucination rather than face up to the sad fact that Muslims perpetrated the 9-11 terrorist acts and that we have an enormous problem with extremism and support for terrorism. Many Muslims, including religious leaders, and ?intellectuals? blamed 9-11 on a Jewish conspiracy and went as far as fabricating a tale that 4000 Jews did not show up for work in the World Trade Center on 9-11. Yet others blamed 9-11 on an American right wing conspiracy or the U.S. Government which allegedly wanted an excuse to invade Iraq and ?steal? Iraqi oil.

After numerous admissions of guilt by Bin Laden and numerous corroborating admissions by captured top level Al-Qaida operatives, we wonder, does the Muslim leadership have the dignity and courage to apologize for 9-11? If not 9-11, will we apologize for the murder of school children in Russia? If not Russia, will we apologize for the train bombings in Madrid, Spain? If not Spain, will we apologize for suicide bombings in buses, restaurants and other public places? If not suicide bombings, will we apologize for the barbaric beheadings of human beings? If not beheadings, will we apologize for the rape and murder of thousands of innocent people in Darfour? If not Darfour, will we apologize for the blowing up of two Russian planes by Muslim women? What will we apologize for? What will it take for Muslims to realize that those who commit mass murder in the name of Islam are not just a few fringe elements? What will it take for Muslims to realize that we are facing a crisis that is more deadly than the Aids epidemic? What will it take for Muslims to realize that there is a large evil movement that is turning what was a peaceful religion into a cult?

Will Muslims wake up before it is too late? Or will we continue blaming the Jews and an imaginary Jewish conspiracy? The blaming of all Muslim problems on Jews is a cancer that is destroying Muslim society from within and it must stop.

Muslims must look inward and put a stop to many of our religious leaders who spend most of their sermons teaching hatred, intolerance and violent jihad. We should not be afraid to admit that as Muslims we have a problem with violent extremism. We should not be afraid to admit that so many of our religious leaders belong behind bars and not behind a pulpit. Only moderate Muslims can challenge and defeat extremist Muslims. We can no longer afford to be silent. If we remain silent to the extremism within our community then we should not expect anyone to listen to us when we complain of stereotyping and discrimination by non-Muslims; we should not be surprised when the world treats all of us as terrorists; we should not be surprised when we are profiled at airports. Simply put, not only do Muslims need to join the war against terror, we need to take the lead in this war.

As to apologizing, we will no longer wait for our religious leaders and ?intellectuals? to do the right thing. Instead, we will start by apologizing for 9-11. We are so sorry that 3000 people were murdered in our name. We will never forget the sight of people jumping from two of the highest buildings in the world hoping against hope that if they moved their arms fast enough that they may fly and survive a certain death from burning. We are sorry for blaming 9-11 on a Jewish or right wing conspiracy. We are so sorry for the murder of more than three hundred school children and adults in Russia. We are so sorry for the murder of train passengers in Spain. We are so sorry for all the victims of suicide bombings. We are so sorry for the beheadings, abductions, rapes, violent Jihad and all the atrocities committed by Muslims around the world. We are so sorry for a religious education that raised killers rather than train people to do good in the world. We are sorry that we did not take the time to teach our children tolerance and respect for other people. We are so sorry for not rising up against the dictators who have ruled the Muslim world for decades. We are so sorry for allowing corruption to spread so fast and so deep in the Muslim world that many of our youth lost hope. We are so sorry for allowing our religious leaders to relegate women to the status of forth class citizens at best and sub-humans at worse.

We are so sorry."[source - Free Muslim Coalition, www.freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=148] >>.
Truly says it all.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89