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Post by iris89 on Jul 11, 2006 23:16:05 GMT -5
The Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Acts Responsible For All That Occurs: INTRODUCTION: Many like to place the blame on others for what results from their own willful acts. With Islam this has been the case from at least 711 AD forward. In 711 AD they attacked Spain and through the years overran most of the country, but when they got kicked out finally about sever hundred years after they started their illegal occupation they screamed about all the wonderful things they did for those they subjected; what utter nonsense. Now the same group after illegally occupying Palestine against its rightful title holders who were so gracious as to allow them to remain in two large parts are crying crocodile tears because when they WRONGFULLY attacked areas belonging to the legitimate title holders; guess what, the legitimate title holders defended themselves. Now it makes one wonder, what these individuals and groups were thinking the legitimate title holders should do when attacked without any provocation? A LITTLE HISTORY FIRST: Early history and the unprovoked attack on Spain: In 711 the Visigothic were ruling in Spain and in no way attacking Islam, yet Islam attacked them without any real provocation. Yes, of course they claimed they had provocation, i.e., they claimed that last Visigoth king, Roderick had seduced the young Florinda, daughter of Julian, Visigothic governor of Ceuta in north Africa an apostate (counterfeit) Christian and they were out to avenge this; but clearly two things stand out, First, it was none of their business, Second, there is no evidence that this ever occurred. Now Let's look at proof that Islam is NOT a religion of peace from history, <<" In 711 CE Tariq ibn Ziyad, the governor of Tangiers, landed in Gibraltar with around 10,000 men, mostly Berbers (indigenous North Africans). He had some of Roderick's Visigoth rivals as allies. In the same or following year in the Cadiz province, Roderick's army was decimated and he is thought to have drowned as he fled. The Visigothic survivors fled to the north of Spain, and within a few years, the Muslims had taken over the rest of the Iberian Peninsula bar a few areas in the Asturian Mountains bordering France. [source - www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/0075_intro.htm , then click 'Muslim Conquest of Spain' {Note: this is a Muslim site.}]. This was nothing short of stealing what did not belong to them by force. Recent history of another unprovoked attack, this time on an Israel army camp in Israel: First, a short item on who had rightful title to the land: <<"Promised Land held in trust. Even the people Israel, to whom God had given the land for them to enjoy as landowners, were told by Jehovah that they were not actually owners of it but only held it in trust. He said concerning the sale of a family land estate: "So the land should not be sold in perpetuity, because the land is mine. For you are alien residents and settlers from my standpoint." (Le 25:23) God had ousted the Canaanites from the land for their disgusting practices. He warned he would also take away all title from Israel and drive them out of the land if they followed such practices, and when they later did, they were sent into exile. (Le 18:24-30; 25:18, 19; 26:27-33; Jer 52:27) After 70 years of desolation of their land, from 607 to 537 B.C.E., God mercifully reestablished them, but this time under Gentile domination. Eventually, in 70 C.E., the Romans completely destroyed Jerusalem and scattered its people. Within the nation, tribes were assigned sections of the land or cities inside the boundaries of other tribes. Priests and Levites had cities with pasture grounds. (Jos 15-21) In turn, within the tribes families were allotted inheritances. These divisions became smaller as families subdivided their own allotments because of increase in numbers. This resulted in thorough cultivation and use of the land. Inheritances were not allowed to circulate from one tribe to another. To prevent this, women who inherited land (because there were no living brothers) had to marry within the tribe to hold their inheritance.-Nu 36:1-12.">>[source - Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2] So as can be seen, the Jews have clear title to all of Palestine and NOT the apostate (counterfeit) Christians Crusaders nor members of Islam. But what do the members of Islam squatters do, they seek to kill Jews dwelling on land to which they have rightful title because they want it for themselves as is usual for Islam. They send suicide bombers in to murder Jews, and send in military rockets to do the same evil thing - now how can anyone in his right mind call Islam a religion of peace. Witness the recent attack on 06/26/2006 on a Jewish military camp where members of Islam murdered two Jewish soldiers who were doing them no wrong and kidnapped a third whose whereabouts is unknown on 06/27/2006; this despite the fact that the Jews are willing to let the Islamic squatters dwell on a large area of their land, and only want peace, i.e., to be left alone and not attacked and murdered. On 07/05/2006 the world news said, <<" Israeli forces take over belt of northern Gaza, Reuters - 49 minutes ago [07/05/2006] GAZA - Israeli armored forces took over a belt of the northern Gaza Strip on Thursday, expanding an offensive after militants fired rockets that hit a major city, Palestinian security sources said. Under covering fire from helicopter gunships, tanks moved into an area including the rubble of three of the Jewish settlements evacuated when Israel abandoned the Gaza Strip last summer after 38 years of occupation." [source - Reuters]>>. Just another unprovoked attack. Why? Because Israel had gone after the squatters for killing three people and kidnapping a fourth, and the government, Hamas, refused to do what was right, return the kidnapped victim and punish and/or turn over the criminals, but unbelievable joined with them and became accessories-after-the-fact. And other Islamic governments, believe it or not, want Israel to stop trying to get justice and return the kidnapped victim to his parents. Let's look at the proof from the world news, with comments identified [[ comment ]], <<" Sat Jul 8, 11:19 AM ET [07/08/2006] TEHRAN (AFP) - The foreign ministers of Arab nations attending a meeting on Iraq in Iran condemned Israel for its "increasing aggression against the Palestinian people" [[now who is the aggressor when you go over the boarder and kill two individuals and kidnappe a third?]] and attacked the "silence" of the international community. [[They are crying crocodile tears due to the reaction to an unprovoked attack by members of Islam and the natural justified response to same]]. "The Arab foreign ministers participating in today's Tehran meeting expressed their strong condemnation of this continuing and increasing aggression against the Palestinian people [[Agression? All Israel is asking is for the return of their soldier and for rocket attacks to stop when actually they should be asking for much more such as punishment of the criminals whom Hamas has become accessories-after-the-fact with.]]," Arab League Secretary General Amr Mussa said in a statement Saturday. Arab officials from Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Syria were gathered in Tehran Saturday for a two-day conference on security in Iraq. The statement said the officials also "voiced sorrow over international silence, and held United Nations Security Council members responsible for the dangerous violations of international laws and treaties" [[They refuse to accept reality of the fact that it was members of Islam and not the Jews who violated international law and treaties.]]. They also "decided to continue consultions among themselves and other foreign ministers of Arab nations to take necessary steps over the aggressive Israeli policies" [[Aggressive policies, such as responding to a very egregious crime that the government, Hamas, became accessories-after-the-fact to.]]. Israel two weeks ago launched a massive incursion into the Gaza Strip after Palestinian militants from three groups, including Hamas's armed wing, captured an Israeli soldier in a deadly raid on a border outpost.[[Why do not these Arab nations demand that Hamas return the Soldier and punish the egregious criminals, and seek for peace to return to the ares?]]">>[/quote] WRONGFUL COMMENTS BY A MEMBER OF ISLAM KNOWN BY NICKNAME "SUKIFUL": First, an exact quote: If one lights the fuse to a stick of dynamite, they should not be surprised at the explosion that results, so get real. If you make an unprovoked attack on someone, YOU ARE AT FAULT for any thing that results, do you get it? Now let's face it, we should pursue peace, not war as shown at 1 Peter 3:8-12, "Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (Authorized King james Bible; AV). Clearly then, we should pursue peace; however, Islam seeks revenge for what happens to them for what they start which is as absurd as seeking revenge from the manufacturer for the damage done by a stick of dynamite that you willfully lit full well knowing the results. Second, an exact quote: Again one must look at the circumstances. If it happens as collateral damages due to an egregious act, then the one committing the egregious act is to blame and no one else. But as can be seen from the above quote, the writer seeks to put the blame on the WRONG persons and/or group rather than to be honest and admit the guilt of his/her group. However, the one or group that caused the wrongful situation that resulted in the unfortunate incident is solely to blame. Let's look at an example, some evil doer shoots a rocket at an individual or city, and the individual or city defends itself and hits back with heavy military gear and innocent citizens get hurt who is to blame? Simple, the ones responsible for the original egregious situation. Now let's face it the unfortunate situations in Afghanistan and Iraq are both due to an attack by Osama bin Ladin; therefore, he and like minded individuals MUST BE HELD GUILTY FOR ALL THAT RESULTS, so let's be real and put the blame where it rightfully belongs. Third, an exact quote: Anyone committing the unprovoked attack is JUST PLAIN WRONG and you well know it, and has NO RIGHT to not expect a defense. They are responsible for all that transpires, and not the one being aggressed against. In other words you go out to make war and trouble, you should bear the total responsibility for all that results. There are no sides to justice and peace which all should pursue. This person's argument is completely flawed. You are in effect saying that if a criminal kidnaps someone or robs someone the police have no right to bring him to justice which is patently absurd, and completely against the concept of true justice. Also, no one should target civilians or for that matter anyone else, ALL SHOULD PURSUE PEACE. Hamas has made it clear that they do NOT want peace and tranquility by becoming accessories-after-the-fact with criminals and even contemptuously saying that they want to legitimate the legitimate title holders. Yes, this is the same nonsense as they tried in Spain, but the Spanish were smarter than the Israelis in that they threw the occupiers who had occupied their country entirely out instead of letting them keep some of their ill gotten land, and now they are paying for being kind. Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
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Post by iris89 on Jul 11, 2006 23:18:16 GMT -5
The Face of Terror and Hate Today INTRODUCTION: The face of terror and hate has changed during the centuries. In the middle ages it was the face of apostate (counterfeit) Christianity and consisted of persecution by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches of all whom they disagreed with or did not like such as members of Islam, Jews, and genuine (true) Christians. Their terror and atrocities took many forms such as genocide's, inquisitions, burnings at the stake, etc. In later times their atrocities took on a nationalistic flavor in the form of Nazi Germany who continued their genocide's and atrocities. For a brief period of time, the atrocities of the apostate (counterfeit) Christianity was replaced by those of the Communist. However, today the face of terror and hate is NOW held by Islam who has taken the place of apostate (counterfeit) Christianity with its members attacks on tranquil people in the form of road side bombs, suicide bombers, use of airplanes to destroy buildings with people in them, kidnappings, hate murders, subway bombings, train bombings, boat rammings, etc. Let's look at a famous incident that had major ramifications for the destruction of the general tranquility of the world. THE 9/11 TERROR ATTACK DESIGNED TO KILL WORLD TRANQUILITY AND PEACE: Let's look at this attack and who was responsible for same through honest apologetic writing of reasonable Muslims as follows, <<"We are so Sorry for 9-11, This September 11 marks the third unforgettable anniversary of the worst mass murder in American history. After September 11, many in the Muslim world chose denial and hallucination rather than face up to the sad fact that Muslims perpetrated the 9-11 terrorist acts and that we have an enormous problem with extremism and support for terrorism. Many Muslims, including religious leaders, and ?intellectuals? blamed 9-11 on a Jewish conspiracy and went as far as fabricating a tale that 4000 Jews did not show up for work in the World Trade Center on 9-11. Yet others blamed 9-11 on an American right wing conspiracy or the U.S. Government which allegedly wanted an excuse to invade Iraq and ?steal? Iraqi oil. After numerous admissions of guilt by Bin Laden and numerous corroborating admissions by captured top level Al-Qaida operatives, we wonder, does the Muslim leadership have the dignity and courage to apologize for 9-11? If not 9-11, will we apologize for the murder of school children in Russia? If not Russia, will we apologize for the train bombings in Madrid, Spain? If not Spain, will we apologize for suicide bombings in buses, restaurants and other public places? If not suicide bombings, will we apologize for the barbaric beheadings of human beings? If not beheadings, will we apologize for the rape and murder of thousands of innocent people in Darfour? If not Darfour, will we apologize for the blowing up of two Russian planes by Muslim women? What will we apologize for? What will it take for Muslims to realize that those who commit mass murder in the name of Islam are not just a few fringe elements? What will it take for Muslims to realize that we are facing a crisis that is more deadly than the Aids epidemic? What will it take for Muslims to realize that there is a large evil movement that is turning what was a peaceful religion into a cult? Will Muslims wake up before it is too late? Or will we continue blaming the Jews and an imaginary Jewish conspiracy? The blaming of all Muslim problems on Jews is a cancer that is destroying Muslim society from within and it must stop. " [source - Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism by Kamal Nawash on September 11, 2004] ALWAYS MONEY FOR DESTRUCTIVE USE AND WEAPONS, BUT NOT FOR CONSTRUCTIVE PURPOSES: Some try and excuse these atrocities by saying it is because they do NOT have jobs, but this is no excuse for atrocities against others to destroy their tranquility. One individual said the following, a direct quote, <<" yes, i agree that more muslims dogmatically follow islam much more closely than jews and christians in their religions. lol, good one! we've already had this discussion. ooooh, my tiny brain cannot comprehend the almighty. www.migrationint.com.au/news/stockh..._2000-21mn.html"and that 20 percent of Palestinian GDP is remittances from Palestinians employed in Israel. " even today, this is still true. why deny such a well documented fact? i got over a thousand hits.">> But overlooks two major facts: [1] Lack of jobs is of their own making as they have chosen to spend their money and effort on committing atrocities against others instead of progressive up-building things such as factories and business. Now whose fault is that, but their own, and only results to light the proverbial self defense response by others who react to their attacks and atrocities. In other words, they light the proverbial fuse and reap the proverbial explosion that results as was the case with respect to the 9/11 unthinkable atrocity committed by members of Islam. Then they cry crocodile tears when Afghanistan and Iraq are taken over by coalition forces as a result of their unconscionable acts, i.e., to use an analogy, it is like lighting the fuse of a box of dynamite and being surprised when it explodes. That is just plain stupid as well as being an atrocity against mankind. Why do they love or lust for atrocities and murders instead of peace and love of fellow man? [2] That if they would work with others instead of committing unthinkable atrocities against others and trying to make hardships for them, all would be better off. Moral objectives and tranquility of the world aside, the world only has a finite Gross World Product to make the lives of all inhabitants better and if a large part of this is squandered on weapons and destruction, it leaves less for all else, and this seems to be a fact that alludes the thinking of many members of Islam that obviously as shown by their actions lust for atrocities and to destroy world tranquility. What is wrong with their thinking ability? Why are they so filled with hate for all others, and maybe even for themselves? FALSE CLAIMS: Islam claims to be a peaceful religion, but the atrocities committed by members of Islam against each other and others clearly show their claim is entirely false. Let's look at the facts that this claim is entirely false by way of world news accounts. <<" LONDON - A British jury Tuesday convicted firebrand Muslim cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri of inciting followers to kill non-Muslims in speeches at his London mosque, which has been linked to Sept. 11 plotter Zacarias Moussaoui and "shoe bomber" Richard Reid.
The jury found the one-eyed, hook-handed cleric guilty on 11 of 15 charges against him, including counts of soliciting murder, stirring racial hatred, possessing a terrorist document and possessing threatening or abusive recordings.[source - Associated Press by TARIQ PANJA, on 02/07/2006]">>
Members of Islam kill each other and destroy each other's mosques, <<" Shiite leaders called for calm, but militants attacked Sunni mosques and a gunfight broke out between Shiite militiamen and guards at the offices of a Sunni political party in Basra. About 500 soldiers were sent to Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad to prevent clashes between the sects, army Capt. Jassim al-Wahash said.
Shiite spiritual leader Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani sent instructions to his followers forbidding attacks on Sunni mosques, especially the major ones in Baghdad. He called for seven days of mourning, his aides said.
...
Shiite protesters later set fire to a Sunni shrine containing the seventh century tomb of Talha bin Obeid-Allah, a companion of the Prophet Muhammad, on the outskirts of the southern city, but there was no immediate word on the extent of the damage or any casualties.
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Gunmen in a speeding car shot and killed Sunni cleric Sheik Khalil al-Dulaimi as he was entering the al-Rashidi mosque in eastern Baghdad, the Iraqi army said. A street vendor was killed in another mosque attack[source - USA Today News, Posted 2/22/2006 3:27 AM]">>
[c]More on how members of Islam lust in killing each other, <<" Shiite leaders called for calm, but militants attacked Sunni mosques and a gunfight broke out between Shiite militiamen and guards at the offices of a Sunni political party in Basra. About 500 soldiers were sent to Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad to prevent clashes between the sects, army Capt. Jassim al-Wahash said.
Shiite spiritual leader Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani sent instructions to his followers forbidding attacks on Sunni mosques, especially the major ones in Baghdad. He called for seven days of mourning, his aides said.
...
Shiite protesters later set fire to a Sunni shrine containing the seventh century tomb of Talha bin Obeid-Allah, a companion of the Prophet Muhammad, on the outskirts of the southern city, but there was no immediate word on the extent of the damage or any casualties.
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Gunmen in a speeding car shot and killed Sunni cleric Sheik Khalil al-Dulaimi as he was entering the al-Rashidi mosque in eastern Baghdad, the Iraqi army said. A street vendor was killed in another mosque attack[source - USA Today News, Posted 2/22/2006 3:27 AM]">>
[d] And more on how members of Islam lust in attacking each other, <<" Sunni mosque bombed as Iraqi tanks deploy in Baghdad
AFP - Mon Feb 27, 3:45 PM ET
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi tanks deployed in Baghdad to pacify the city after an eruption of sectarian violence, but the bombing of a Sunni mosque and a mortar attack shattered the relative calm. Four people were killed and 15 wounded in the bomb attack outside a Sunni mosque in eastern Baghdad as the faithful were leaving evening prayers, security officials said. [source - AFP - Mon Feb 27, 3:45 PM ET]">>
[e] And how they lust in killing others and themselves, <<" TEL AVIV, Israel - A Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up outside a fast-food restaurant in a bustling area of Tel Aviv during the Passover holiday Monday, killing eight other people and wounding at least 49 in the deadliest Palestinian attack in more than a year. The Palestinians' new Hamas leaders called the attack a legitimate response to Israeli "aggression." Israel said it held Hamas ultimately responsible ? even though a different militant group, Islamic Jihad, claimed responsibility ? and would respond "as necessary." [source - Associated Press on 4/17/2006]">>, yes, quite sick and shows a really screw loose upstairs thinking, but some members of Islam even are so warped as to call these deranged individuals 'freedom fighters', can you believe.
[f] Islam fights itself, <<" By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Sectarian violence has forced about 100,000 families across
Bottom of Form 1
Iraq to flee their homes, a top Iraqi official said. At least 17 people, including an American soldier, were killed Saturday in fighting.
Adil Abdul-Mahdi, one of the country's two vice presidents, estimated on Friday that 100,000 Iraqi families - 90 percent of them his fellow Shiites - had fled their homes to escape attacks by rival religious sects.[source - Associated Press on 04/29/2006 by Robert H. Reid]">>
[g] Members of Islam commit atrocities against others, <<" By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU, Associated Press Writer
CAIRO, Egypt - When terrorists blew themselves up in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula this week, the radical Palestinian group Hamas quickly joined Arab governments and Western leaders in condemning a "criminal attack against all human values."
Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood called the bombings "aggression on human souls created by God."
The denunciations were unexpectedly harsh from the Islamic fundamentalist groups - Hamas has killed hundreds of Israeli civilians in suicide bombings, and the Brotherhood is determined to impose an Islamic government - but experts agree that radical Muslim organizations want to distance themselves from al-Qaida.
The widening rift largely has not been acknowledged among Western powers, who tend to lump Islamic radicals together. The U.S. list of "Foreign Terrorist Organizations," for example, puts al-Qaida with Hamas and the Lebanese-based Hezbollah.
Scholars of Islamic movements and some Western policy-makers, however, say distinctions now must be made between hard-line Islamist organizations and "holy warrior" groups such as Osama bin Laden's terror network....
The level of organization these attacks" demonstrated several al-Qaida trademarks, Roberts said.
Since November's attacks on a Jordanian hotel that killed more than 60, al-Qaida has increasingly been criticized for killing civilians. And when bin Laden issued an audiotape earlier this month, many observers said his new call to support Palestinians against "Zionists" and "crusaders" was a move to boost declining popularity in the Muslim world.
[source, Associated Press by D de MONTESQUIOU on 04/29/2006]">>
The list of atrocities committed by members of Islam is almost endless, but the above is sufficient to show the who is the modern face of terror and hate. Also, we all know of the London subway bombing, 9/11, and the train bombing in Spain so NO need for world news accounts of those egregious atrocities.
CONCLUSION:
From the foregoing and common knowledge it is easy to see that "The Face of Terror and Hate Today" is being carried him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. by members of Islam as a standard bearer. Islam should consider 1 Peter 3:10-11, "For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it." (Authorized King James Bible; AV) and start seeking peace and pursuing it. Their members should consider becoming genuine (true) Christians and practicing love as they do.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
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Post by iris89 on Jul 11, 2006 23:19:36 GMT -5
Darn If You Do, Darn If You Do Not - Islam View of Others:
INTRODUCTION:
Unfortunately when any nation and/or group of nations is forced in to the position of playing world policeman they are put into a position of darn if you do, darn if you do not; a real no win position. For their effort, Islam calls whatever they do a provocation; yet Islam fails to assume its own responsibility to do anything about the problems in its own backyard, but wants others to handle the thankless task. Why? They went others to spend their money to handle things they should handle, and so they have a "fall guy" to blame or point fingers at for anything that does not go to their liking and so they can falsely accuse the one playing world policeman at the moment.
To give an example of this fowl play standard operating procedure (SOP)of Islam, one Muslim listed the following imagined wrongs and/or provocations by the US and Europe, some of which NEVER even happened in any way.
They were, <<"Iraqi Sanctions, Shah of Iran, Iran-Contra Scandal.....supplying Saddam with chemical weapons, vetoing sending Peacekeepers to Palestine in the U.N. etc etc etc.....only one of us lives in a fantasy">>.
Now let's look at each of these.
THE REALITY, THE FACTS, ON ALLEGED PROVOCATIONS:
[1] False charge - supplying Saddam with chemical weapons - Which never occurred, but blame was put on the US. The truth is that Saddam Hussein procured the ingredients clandestinely and likewise procured the equipment necessary clandestinely also, and when Europe and the US learned of it they took action against the suppliers, most of which had been duped without knowledge by the Muslim Saddam Hussein. As can be seen, Islam called this a provocation by the US and others when in reality it was a provocation by one of their own which they failed to take action against, yet some of Islam use this as justification to attack others, absolutely absurd!
Even more absurd is that all the nations that are predominately Islamic full well knew that Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons and was using them on Muslim Kurds and sat inactive like three blind monkeys, know no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. To wit, they took no action when they should have as it was in their court, but wanted others to play world cop so they incurred no expense and so they had someone to blame for anything they did not like. How absurd!
[2] Blame of others for taking action due to their failure to do so - Iraqi Sanctions. Europe and the US took up the role of world policeman, since Islam had failed to accept their responsibility and step up to the plate, and imposed sanctions do to Islam's failure to accept its responsibility and put an end to wrong doing by Saddam Hussein. What was Islam's response, they blamed those who stepped up to the plate due to Islam's failure to assume its responsibility; SOP for most Islamic nations. They even had the nerve to call sanctions a provocation so once more darn if you do, darn if you do not.
[3] Blame for assisting a friend trying to modernize his country - Shah of Iran. Yes, the Us and Europe tried to assist the Shaw of Iran, and why not? He was trying to modernize his nation and bestow greater freedom on its citizens, but their efforts failed and a radical regime came into power that stopped the modernization process and removed almost all freedoms and any concept of real justice. Let's look at an actual case taken from the Internet,
Speaks for itself with respect lack of freedom.
Also this regime has committed one provocation after another, some in exigent or salient violation of international law, yet Islam stood by in their SOP and failed to step up to the plate. Let me site one exigent and salient violation of international law and regulations even in the Quran itself which Islam claims to believe. The government, new radical, permitted the take-over of the American assembly and held diplomats and others in the embassy prisoners for over a year and also illegally accessed documents, all in violation of international law. This was NOT only a salient provocation, but an act of war. Now what did Islam do? Nothing constructive, they failed to step up to the plate and do what they should have, rectify the situation, but they tried to criticizes the US, the victim, over it, can you imagine something so absurd?
[4] Blame for attempting to assist the hostages taken in clear violation of international law - Iran-Contra Scandal - which although the method used was a violation of US law was nothing but an honest effort to right a wrong, the illegal taking of hostages at an Embassy in violation of international law. Can you imagine calling this a provocation? Clearly shows Islam imagines things.
[5] Blame for not wanting to foot the bill which Islam should have handled - vetoing sending Peacekeepers to Palestine in the U.N. Now a nation has the absolute right, if it does NOT want to play world policeman when it has no responsibility in a specific situation such as this one; this is especially so when those whose responsibility it really is do NOT want to step up to the plate, namely Islamic nations. Right now, members of Islam in Palestine have committed a grievous wrong against Israel, the Hebrews, their brother tribe from Abraham. What do the Islamic nations want, basically Israel to stop pressing for right and justice, but NOT a single word with respect righting the wrong committed. Let's look at the proof, a world news item with comments on shown as [[ comment ]].
Speaks for itself, Hamas has permitted an act in violation of international law to be committed and then sanctioned it making themselves accessories after the fact in the crime, refuses to release the kidnapped 19 year old Israel soldier or to punish the criminals, which in effect makes this crime under international law and justice a defacto act of war, yet Islamic nations at the two-day conference on security in Iraq "voiced sorrow over international silence, and held United Nations Security Council members responsible for the dangerous violations of international laws and treaties". How absurd when one of their own, NOT Israel is the offender, but true to SOP for Islam, they are trying to say Israel is the malefactor so, if the international community ever stepped in on the side of justice, they would be blamed for making a provocation. This is of course a darn if you do, a darn if you do not no win situation.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Post by iris89 on Jul 11, 2006 23:21:39 GMT -5
Darn If You Do, Darn If You Do Not - Islam View of Others:
INTRODUCTION:
Unfortunately when any nation and/or group of nations is forced in to the position of playing world policeman they are put into a position of darn if you do, darn if you do not; a real no win position. For their effort, Islam calls whatever they do a provocation; yet Islam fails to assume its own responsibility to do anything about the problems in its own backyard, but wants others to handle the thankless task. Why? They went others to spend their money to handle things they should handle, and so they have a "fall guy" to blame or point fingers at for anything that does not go to their liking and so they can falsely accuse the one playing world policeman at the moment.
To give an example of this fowl play standard operating procedure (SOP)of Islam, one Muslim listed the following imagined wrongs and/or provocations by the US and Europe, some of which NEVER even happened in any way.
They were, <<"Iraqi Sanctions, Shah of Iran, Iran-Contra Scandal.....supplying Saddam with chemical weapons, vetoing sending Peacekeepers to Palestine in the U.N. etc etc etc.....only one of us lives in a fantasy">>.
Now let's look at each of these.
THE REALITY, THE FACTS, ON ALLEGED PROVOCATIONS:
[1] False charge - supplying Saddam with chemical weapons - Which never occurred, but blame was put on the US. The truth is that Saddam Hussein procured the ingredients clandestinely and likewise procured the equipment necessary clandestinely also, and when Europe and the US learned of it they took action against the suppliers, most of which had been duped without knowledge by the Muslim Saddam Hussein. As can be seen, Islam called this a provocation by the US and others when in reality it was a provocation by one of their own which they failed to take action against, yet some of Islam use this as justification to attack others, absolutely absurd!
Even more absurd is that all the nations that are predominately Islamic full well knew that Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons and was using them on Muslim Kurds and sat inactive like three blind monkeys, know no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. To wit, they took no action when they should have as it was in their court, but wanted others to play world cop so they incurred no expense and so they had someone to blame for anything they did not like. How absurd!
[2] Blame of others for taking action due to their failure to do so - Iraqi Sanctions. Europe and the US took up the role of world policeman, since Islam had failed to accept their responsibility and step up to the plate, and imposed sanctions do to Islam's failure to accept its responsibility and put an end to wrong doing by Saddam Hussein. What was Islam's response, they blamed those who stepped up to the plate due to Islam's failure to assume its responsibility; SOP for most Islamic nations. They even had the nerve to call sanctions a provocation so once more darn if you do, darn if you do not.
[3] Blame for assisting a friend trying to modernize his country - Shah of Iran. Yes, the Us and Europe tried to assist the Shaw of Iran, and why not? He was trying to modernize his nation and bestow greater freedom on its citizens, but their efforts failed and a radical regime came into power that stopped the modernization process and removed almost all freedoms and any concept of real justice. Let's look at an actual case taken from the Internet,
Speaks for itself with respect lack of freedom.
Also this regime has committed one provocation after another, some in exigent or salient violation of international law, yet Islam stood by in their SOP and failed to step up to the plate. Let me site one exigent and salient violation of international law and regulations even in the Quran itself which Islam claims to believe. The government, new radical, permitted the take-over of the American assembly and held diplomats and others in the embassy prisoners for over a year and also illegally accessed documents, all in violation of international law. This was NOT only a salient provocation, but an act of war. Now what did Islam do? Nothing constructive, they failed to step up to the plate and do what they should have, rectify the situation, but they tried to criticizes the US, the victim, over it, can you imagine something so absurd?
[4] Blame for attempting to assist the hostages taken in clear violation of international law - Iran-Contra Scandal - which although the method used was a violation of US law was nothing but an honest effort to right a wrong, the illegal taking of hostages at an Embassy in violation of international law. Can you imagine calling this a provocation? Clearly shows Islam imagines things.
[5] Blame for not wanting to foot the bill which Islam should have handled - vetoing sending Peacekeepers to Palestine in the U.N. Now a nation has the absolute right, if it does NOT want to play world policeman when it has no responsibility in a specific situation such as this one; this is especially so when those whose responsibility it really is do NOT want to step up to the plate, namely Islamic nations. Right now, members of Islam in Palestine have committed a grievous wrong against Israel, the Hebrews, their brother tribe from Abraham. What do the Islamic nations want, basically Israel to stop pressing for right and justice, but NOT a single word with respect righting the wrong committed. Let's look at the proof, a world news item with comments on shown as [[ comment ]].
Speaks for itself, Hamas has permitted an act in violation of international law to be committed and then sanctioned it making themselves accessories after the fact in the crime, refuses to release the kidnapped 19 year old Israel soldier or to punish the criminals, which in effect makes this crime under international law and justice a defacto act of war, yet Islamic nations at the two-day conference on security in Iraq "voiced sorrow over international silence, and held United Nations Security Council members responsible for the dangerous violations of international laws and treaties". How absurd when one of their own, NOT Israel is the offender, but true to SOP for Islam, they are trying to say Israel is the malefactor so, if the international community ever stepped in on the side of justice, they would be blamed for making a provocation. This is of course a darn if you do, a darn if you do not no win situation.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Post by iris89 on Jul 11, 2006 23:32:14 GMT -5
Honest hearted Ones Are Interested in Truth About God, Not Politics:
INTRODUCTION:
Many look to the politicians as their hope be they good or bad; usually the only difference between politicians is with respect to their moral character since many of them are more or less morally bankrupt. Unfortunately in most cases, the religious leaders seek to do their bidding to curry their favor, so what do we have a society that is breaking down very fast in both so called Christian lands that Jesus (Yeshua), the Isa, would no more recognize most of their citizens as his genuine (true) followers than he would the members of other religions that do not call themselves Christian. Crime is rampant in so called Christian lands, just as it is in most so called Muslim lands, both Sunni and Shiite.
Both the so called mainstream Christian churches and their priest, bishops, and popes, and their government's presidents, prime ministers, kings/queens, and dictators, and the Muslims and their Imams, Ayatollahs, sheiks, etc. and their government's kings, emirs, presidents, prime ministers, dictators, etc., are mostly morally bankrupt and there is no hope in any of them. The Bible well put it at Jeremiah 10:23, "I know, O Yahweh, That, not to a son of earth, pertaineth his own path,--Not, to the man who walketh, also to direct his own steps." (Rotherham Bible; RB).
No there is no perfect politician anywhere in the world, only ones varying between somewhat good and very, very bad. Many times the selection with respect politicians be they elected ones, self proclaimed dictators, or heredity ones such as kings, etc. is which is the lessor of two evils. Yes, this is the unfortunate present state of affairs so we must look elsewhere for guidance.
THE BIBLE THE ONLY ACCURATE SOURCE OF GUIDANCE:
We can not look to men, politicians and religious leaders for guidance as clearly shown in a news item out of Israel, <<" By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press on /2006] JERUSALEM - Israel's president is being dogged by allegations of sexual harassment in a spiraling scandal that has pushed the country's violent standoff with Hamas off the front pages.
The swirl of accusations against President Moshe Katsav has not led to charges or even a police investigation. But it is threatening to tarnish the image of a Mr. Clean politician and has invited comparisons to another presidential sex scandal.
"Who does he think he is? Clinton?" a pair of comedians wrote in a newspaper column this week.[[Clearly alluding to the poor moral quality of a former president of the US.]]”>>
This clearly shows that the general run of politicians is to the moral low ground so we can NOT really expect much good from any of them, but unfortunately this applies to the religious leaders of all mainstream religious groups such as so called Christian, Islamic, etc. Therefore, we must turn to a source that has proven its reliability for over three thousand years, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. Why the Bible? The Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman, and is different from all others in that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael is its real author. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author as previously mentioned, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.
To wit, the Bible is the ONLY book God (YHWH) ever inspired men to write as his scribes. In other words, God is its author and men only put his thoughts given to them by divine inspiration into their own words, the words of men. Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, etc. Two of which the authors claimed they received them directly from God (YHWh) which of course was NOT true.
Let’s Look at the importance of the Bible to mankind.
IMPORTANCE OF THE BIBLE TO MANKIND:
1) Our entire civilization as we know it is actually built on the ability to store information in one form or another and to pass it on to others for their use. This storage can take many different forms such as books, memory cores and disks, scrolls, clay tablets, writings on stones and artifacts, etc. Storage of the repository of human knowledge and better reasoning ability are the things that set humankind apart from all other species that inhabits this planet. We know what happened in the past and can learn from the past because of our store of knowledge. Without this ability to store knowledge we would not know anything about the Roman Empire, the various ancient dynasties of the Chinese or the scientific findings of the past that we have built on and developed on in a synergistic way to continually advance. This sets us apart from all the other concurrent inhabiting species of this planet; take the common cat, this animal has coexisted with mankind during are entire existence, but it lacks the ability to pass on anything more than the most rudimentary information to the next generation and it has NOT advanced; we see no great cat cities or developments by this species and we never will.
2) Our advancement was made possible by this ability to build on our collective knowledge in a continuing progressive upward path. We name things and this name is accepted as valid my others and our knowledge is added to. Take for example the color we call red, why is it red? It is red only because we collectively decide to use this term for it and to reference it to artifacts such as color chips, vases, etc. that are that color. Could we prove anything is red apart from our collective knowledge of what is red and our artifacts? Definitely not since it is only red due to our collective knowledge and our artifacts. Without our collective knowledge and our artifacts we would be just like the lesser animals having only a here and now existence. Of course there are those among us that differ with our collective knowledge and question the obvious of what we know or have learned as a society. The Flat Earth Society (London and California) maintain that the earth is flat and not round and there are still some primitive people that believe the earth is not only flat but carried by a great turtle through the cosmos and also those who maintain man has never gone to the moon. However, are their beliefs reasonable in the light of knowledge accumulated by society and the artifacts now possessed by society, the answer is a resounding NO.
3) Also, are advancement is built on our ability to classify our knowledge. Many things are as we classify them. These classifications are not intrinsically right or wrong, but a method of ordering our collective knowledge into a coherent form for better understanding. In other words it is humanities attempt to take a group of disconnected information and put it into some order so we can better understand it. Of course one can disagree with classifications used and maintain that standard classifications are inadequate in one way or another, but he/she does thins strictly on the basis of the collective body of human knowledge. For example, take the classifications of several forms of deviant sex, pedophile, homosexual, and heterosexual deviant sex practitioner. Our collective knowledge is that a heterosexual relates to one who has sexual desires toward a member of the opposite gender; a homosexual relates to one who has sexual desires toward a member of his own gender; Pedophilia relates to a sexual perversion in which children, either sex, are the preferred sexual object. Now one could maintain that pedophilias are neither homosexual or heterosexual deviant sex practitioners as they are driven by different behavior motivations, i.e., power and control in addition to sex, than deviant sex practitioners who prefer adults. While their behavior motivations are different, they, depending on the gender of the victim and the perpetrator would be either heterosexual pedophiles or homosexual pedophiles; note, as previously mentioned this classification is apart from the differences in underlying motivation due to how we have collectively set up the classification in our collective body of knowledge.
4) Since God created us and everything else in the universe and new our makeup since he had made us, he caused men under his direction or inspiration to write a collective body of information to tell us of his requirements, laws and principles; of the history of his people with whom he had concluded a covenant with; to tell us salient items to occur in the future, prophecy; and to inspire us. For example, the history given in the Bible was intended to show how when his people kept his laws and principles all went well with them and when they disobeyed how he brought punishment on them. This history also showed how punishment was executed on wicked nations before our modern era. All this was for the purpose of adding to our collective knowledge so we could learn from it and act in an intelligent manner on it if we were so disposed. Whereas, prophecy, the foretelling of history in advance, had basically a two fold purpose of first advising us of what would happen in the future and in most cases why and the second was so we would indeed know that his addition to our collective knowledge was indeed from him and the writers of it were indeed inspired. In fact, one mathematician once took the hundred of scriptures in the old testament concerning Jesus, prophecy related to him, and calculated that the possibility of them all being fulfilled by coincidence was so great as to be mathematically impossible.
In addition to prophecy to show the Bible is inspired and from God is the many recorded eyewitness accounts recorded in the Bible and elsewhere that relate to the life and times of Jesus. For example, the accounts written by Josephus, a first century Jewish historian employed by the Romans, clearly acknowledge Jesus (see "The Jewish Antiguities" by Josephus) and many of his activities/accomplishments as do other contemporary historians such as Tacitus, a Roman historian in "The complete works of Tacitus, " and numerous others. "The New Encyclopedia Britannica states: "These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus." The Jews, however, did not accept Jesus and the "Encyclopaedia Judaica says, "The Jews of the Roman period believed [the Messiah] would be raised up by God to break the yoke of the heather..." but they did admit his existance and many of the powerful works he did.
5) Some specific examples of its inspiration were the prophecy at Jeremiah 49:17-18 17 "Also Edom shall be a desolation: every one that goeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss at all the plagues thereof. 18 As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD, no man shall abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it." Note, Jeremiah's recording was finished by 580 B.C. The prophecy was fulfilled when the Edomites were driven from Palesting during the 2nd century B.C. by Judam Maccabaeus, "The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia. There are many more examples such as this that can be found in reference books in all major libraries for any who should care to do further research in the repository of collective knowledge of our civilization.
6) Therefore the Bible is proved to be a reliable by a repository of collective artifacts, many from archeological discoveries, that verify Biblical facts and details, and our collective repository of recorded knowledge external to the Bible. As previously noted this can be checked out at any major library with a little research on the part of any interested individual who wishes to do his/her homework.
CONCLUSION:
Let’s first ask a question poised in the Bible at Ecclesiastes 8:9, which brings out a fact from long ago that is ever truer today, “All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV). This clarifies a truth mentioned in the introduction, all governments by man over man are oppressive and bad to varying degrees; thus, the only choose one has is not between a good government by man, but the lessor of two evils. And Proverbs 29:2 clearly shows the condition of the people under a government which is the greater of two evils, “When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.” (AV). Of course, this is true to a lessor degree under a government which is the lessor of two evils.
Now why can human governments not succeed over the long term nor me morally run? Well, 1 John 5:19 gives the answer, “We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the power of the evil one.” (The 1936 Williams New Testament; WNT), and this is collaborated by 2 Corinthians 4:4, “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” (WNT).
Why can not rulers and so called religious leaders of mainstream groups be morally good? Simple, they fail to follow what is written at 1 Corinthians 10:24, “Let no man seek his own, but each his neighbor’s good.” (American Standard Version; ASV). This earth can not see good government until its wicked spirit leader, Satan the Devil is put away as clearly shown by John 12:31, “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.” (ASV).
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Post by iris89 on Jul 12, 2006 14:49:19 GMT -5
False Claims And Deceptions A Way of Life For Many Members of Islam:
FIRST, Many Muslims claim their religion is a religion of peace, but the daily world news clearly shows that you are in error almost every day. They say the violence is a result of someone attacking their family and/or house, but lets look at the facts. Here are some examples:
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Post by iris89 on Jul 18, 2006 17:16:07 GMT -5
Hypocrisy Of Religions That Claim to Be Peaceful But Permit Their Members to Promote War:
INTRODUCTION:
Both major religions, apostate (counterfeit) Christians that claim to be footstep followers of Christ but are NOT, and Islam both claim to be religions of peace. However, history tells a very different story. The apostate (counterfeit) Christians have promoted Crusades [actually on provocation by Islam.]; genocides such as of the Cathers; burnings at the stake by those they did not like and/or believed differently; 30 year war of religion; enslavement of others such as in Goa, India, and the new world; promotion of wars; etc.
The other, Islam, has done just as bad such as attacking and enslaving most of Spain for six centuries; attacking the Byzantine Empire and stealing all of its lands; an attack on France with a view of taking Paris, the sacking/distruction by Fatimid caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and preventing pilgrimages to Jerusalem; the moving on and wrongly occupying the tribal lands of their brother tribe, the Hebrews, of land given to them for perpetuity by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham; the kidnapping of soldiers of their brother tribe with the sole intent of fomenting strive and destroying world tranquility; the bombing of trains/subways in India, Spain, and London for the same purpose; the 9/11 destruction of the World Trade Center; etc.
Now it should be obvious to all that none of these acts these religions have permitted their members to carry out are in any way in line with their claim to be peaceful religions. Now these acts were/are NOT isolated acts, but part of a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) from the top religious leaders. To wit, Popes, bishops, priest, Caliphs, Sultans, Ayatollahs, Kings, Emirs, dictators, presidents, prime ministers, generals, etc.
Let's look at the wrong in a summarized form.
SUMMARIZED WRONG - SIMPLIEST FORM:
Both of these groups by failing to be peaceful religions as they WRONGLY claim have permitted distress to be caused to others [fill in the name]. When the expected resistance/counter offense/defense occurs from the ones being caused distress by their action and/or inaction they either caused directly and/or permitted by them to their members proves distressful to them, they want it lifted. Yet, they make no move or suggestion with respect to lifting the distress their victim is experiencing; what outright hypocrisy.
Peace and tranquility can never exist while groups claiming FALSELY to be peaceful religions, but are NOT, are permitted to exist. This earth can only have peace and tranquility when these groups are finally eliminated, as promised, by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael. Why is this? Well the Bible clearly shows that Satan the Devil is the ruler of this present wicked system per 1 John 5:19, "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
This will of course occur at the conclusion of this system of things per John 12:31, "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." (AV).
Some may view this as taking too long given the current warlike condition of the earth, but Matthew 24:14 says, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (AV). And Matthew 24:37-39 clearly shows this end will come suddenly, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (AV).
Now the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael is NOT slow as some count slowness, but is merciful wanting all to be given a chance as shown at 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (AV); and Isaiah 30:18, "And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him." (AV).
SOLUTION TO WORLD DISTRESS NOT FROM MEN:
Many look to men to solve world problems, but this can NOT happen as mankind has never learned to value right over wrong, and to peacefully sit together and resolve problems. In fact, with all their world organizations designed to do this, they only make them into one ups-man forms.
We can see this at the moment with respect to the unconscionable affair between Lebanon and Israel. An attack on Israel occurs from Lebanon by an armed Islamic army that Lebanon permits in their country. In this unprovoked attack, eight Israel soldiers are killed and two are kidnapped. Lebanon clearly abdicates its responsibility to bring to justice the wrong doers or to have the kidnapped victims returned.
Israel does the expected and counter attacks, what else would you expect, when Lebanon does NOT ACCEPT its responsibility to make amends, punish the wrong doers it has permitted to use its country to stage attacks on Israel, nor to have the kidnapped victim returned as any right thinking government would do. In effect, they permit the fuse to be and are totally responsible for all that results.
Instead of assuming their responsibility, they go to the United Nations and ask to have a truce called, and try to put the responsibility on Israel. Their filing with the United Nations makes no reference to righting the original wrong or returning the kidnapped victims back to Israel. To wit, they do NOT want to do justice. Why? Because they care NOT about the distress the original aggression they permitted caused to Israel, nor to the continuing distress it is causing.
Clearly Lebanon is the WRONG, not only for not relieving the distress caused Israel, their neighbor, but for proposing a cease fire that solves NOTHING. If they were responsible and caring, they would have done two things, (1) immediately seek to right the wrong and make sure it NEVER occurred again, (2) started negotiating for the right venue, a treaty of peace and friendship with Israel.
Of course, the Bible covered this long ago when it showed that the kingdom of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, not men, would succeed in bring peace at Daniel 2:44, "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." (AV); and Matthew 6:10 in Jesus' (Yeshua's) prayer to his father, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael.
So what should men be doing now? Well to find out, look at Psalms 2:10-12, "Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him." (AV).
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Post by iris89 on Jul 18, 2006 17:17:39 GMT -5
Face Reality - Hezbollah Started It And Bears Total Responsibility:
INTRODUCTION:
The Middle East is in turmoil today, 07/15/2006. Why? Because Hezbollah does NOT want peace, but wants atrocities and war. Hezbollah is is an organization made up of members of Islam, a religion that claims to be a religion of peace. Yet Hezbollah only promotes hate and continues to promote strive and destroy world tranquility and clearly seeks to impede world peace.
It uses Lebanon as a base of operations to make unprovoked attacks on Israel and to kidnap her citizens. Unfortunately, Lebanon has permitted this wrong doing, and therefore must share in the unpleasant results - too bad as Beirut was once the 'jewel' of the Middle East, a wonderful city.
Now one may ask why does Lebanon want to be an accessory-after-the-fact in Hezbollah's crimes against humanity, and reap the justified whirlwind from Israel for doing so. Maybe they enjoy having punishment brought on themselves and get some other weird perverted enjoyment from it or something. But is this the way affairs should be conducted by individuals that claim to belong to a peaceful religion? All need to think about this and come up with an answer.
THE BIBLE'S VIEW:
Jesus (Yeshua), the Isa, said at Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); and the Apostle Peter wrote at 1 Peter 3:8-15, "Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. 13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? 14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" (AV).
Now as can readily be seen Hezbollah and its supporters [also members of Islam] are NOT desirous of peace although belonging to a religion that claims to be a religion of peace. Obviously, if they were considered as doing wrong by Islam, then Islam should excommunicate or interdict them from Islam; they have NOT done so.
Of course many members of Islam reject what the Bible says, but is this reasonable considering that their Quran like the Book of Mormon is nothing but a knockoff of the Bible? Now the well known rule of precedence is that the earlier document shall have precedence over the later that used information from it just as the earlier granting of land title takes precedence in any title search or action at law over the later. Many overlook the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman as was the Quran and the Book of Mormon. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.
So as can readily be seen, if one is open minded and honest with himself, what is written in the Bible takes precedence over any other guide book that mankind may have.
ALL SHOULD SEEK PEACE AND BE PEACEMAKERS:
Just at the Bible says at Matthew 5:9, "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." (AV), clearly showing that all should seek to be peacemakers and NOT war makers such as is Hezbollah and their evil backers. But as we all well know, many in the middle east can not stand tranquility and peace and when ever things have been relatively peaceful for awhile, they commit some type of atrocity that will bring on a confrontation since their objective is to destroy peace and tranquility. This clearly shows per 1 John 5:19 that their unseen leader is Satan the Devil, "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." (AV); and also by 2 Corinthians 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (AV).
Actions by evil men and the groups perplexes most of mankind and this is shown clearly in the Bible at Luke 21:10, "Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:" (AV) by the prophecy about our time by none other than Jesus (Yeshua), the Isa; and at 2 Timothy 3:1-5, "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (AV). 2 Timothy 3:1-5 clearly is speaking about groups like Hezbollah that claim to belong to a religion of peace along with their backers, but do nothing but ferment war, not peace.
Now let''s look at the truth by means of the world news:
THE FACTS FROM THE WORLD NEWS BY ASSOCIATED PRESS:
The Circumstances:
In an article by Kevin Frayer, AP [07/15/2006]the following salient items appeared.
<<" Neither side showed signs of backing down from the conflict, which erupted Wednesday when Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. As civilian deaths mounted, diplomatic efforts to end the crisis had yet to get off the ground.>>"
Correct Venue Needed:
In an emotional televised speech, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora called on the United Nations to broker an immediate cease-fire to end Israel's land, sea and air offensive against Lebanon.">>
Of course a cease-fire is NOT the proper venue because it implies resumption at a future date of violence which is uncalled for. The proper venue would be a treaty of peace in which both nations agree to respect the others right to peace and tranquility and to not permit military groups to remain on their territory, such as Hezbollah that are dedicated to fermenting violence and promoting war. Also, it would call for the return of the kidnapped individuals, turning over the war criminals that committed the kidnapping and killed at least eight individuals during commission of this war crime designed to disturb world peace and tranquility; to wit, the perpetrators should be tried by the international war crimes court.
Even Saudi Arabia Recognizes Who Started The Mess:
<<" President Bush, on a trip to Russia, said it was up to Hezbollah "to lay down its arms and to stop attacking." Arab foreign ministers gathered in Cairo but fell into squabbling after moderate states, led by Saudi Arabia, denounced Hezbollah for starting the fight.">>
And,
<<" Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal called the group's actions "unexpected, inappropriate and irresponsible," telling his counterparts: "These acts will pull the whole region back to years ago, and we cannot simply accept them."
Supporting his stance were representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, delegates said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.">>
Now why does the Arab world not unite and punish Hezbollah and turn over the war criminals who started the mess and bare total responsibility for all the death and destruction to the international war crimes court and give back Israel its citizens who were kidnapped?
World Leaders On The Subject:
<<""In my judgment, the best way to stop the violence is to understand why the violence occurred in the first place," Bush said. "And that's because Hezbollah has been launching rocket attacks out of Lebanon into Israel and because Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers."
Putin said it was unacceptable to try to reach political goals through abductions and strikes against an independent state. "In this context we consider Israel's concerns to be justified," he said. At the same time, he said, "the use of force should be balanced."">>
Clearly they recognize that Hezbollah and their backers are sole responsible for all that is occurring. In fact, the Russian leader Putin clearly said, <<" it was unacceptable to try to reach political goals through abductions and strikes against an independent state.">>
Two Little too Late by Government of Lebanon?:
<<" In an emotional televised speech, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad ...
He also pledged to reassert government authority all over Lebanese territory - suggesting the possibility of deploying the Lebanese army in the south, which Hezbollah effectively controls. That would meet a repeated U.N. and U.S. demand.">>
He has known of this dysfunctional situation for a long time and failed to take action even though he has been asked repeatedly by the U.N. and others. So he can NOT claim lack of responsibility for the present mess. Its like the authorities continually warning a property owner about a dangerous uncovered well on his property, and then one day a child falling in it and his wondering why he is being held responsible. But what does the Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad do? Basically he cries crocodile tears to the U.N. to do something because of his own failure to heed repeated warnings - how absurd.
Even now, Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad, has NOT attempted to arrest the criminals and return their kidnapped victims and find their organization financially responsibility for all damages done in Israel and his own country. Something must be wrong with him, what I do NOT know.
CONCLUSION:
Level heads among those belonging to a religion that claims to be a religion of peace need to prevail. They need to arrange an objective meeting of all directly involved with the view to getting wrongs undone and coming to agreement on a treaty of peace that goes much further than a mere cessation of belligerent acts. Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and the Palestine squatters need to start working together on the regions problems such as developing the regions economy, the setting up of a regional electrical grid along with Jordan, peaceful commerce between them, joint task force to eliminate terrorist, none permitting of militias and other irregular military groups, and setting up joint fact finding groups. Lebanon is a beautiful country that if they joined with Israel in setting up a joint economic region could soon become a regional economic powerhouse and create many jobs, not just for their respective citizens, but for the Palestine squatters and the Jordanians and the Syrians. The region needs economic development and jobs, not war and infrastructure destroying activity.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Post by iris89 on Jul 18, 2006 17:18:43 GMT -5
Islam Is Against Freedom of Conscience Yet Wants It For Themselves: INTRODUCTION: When members of Islam move to Australia, Canada, England, France, Spain, US, Denmark, etc. they want religious freedom, they demand it, but do they want to grant the same basic human right of conscience to others? NO, they definitely do not. This denial is shown to be the case from ancient times. In fact, this denial was actually the 'trigger' for the Crusades that Islam so blames the so called Christians for, but fail to state that they brought the Crusades on themselves by their actions. How so? Let's look at the facts from history. <<" A turning point in western attitudes towards the east came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid caliph of Cairo, al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, had the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem destroyed. His successor permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it under stringent circumstances, and pilgrimage was again permitted, but many stories began to be circulated in the West about the cruelty of Muslims toward Christian pilgrims; these stories then played an important role in the development of the crusades later in the century."[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>. Yet today they demand the right to the Mosque that sits on Hebrew land, the site of their former temple and to which they NEVER received permission or title from the Hebrew owners of the land. <<"Caliph Omar (contemporary of Muhammad, who had died a few years earlier), ordered it cleaned and performed prayer there. According to some sources, he also ordered a mosque to be constructed at the spot, upon which site the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built several decades later." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>. So we can see their intention to take what was NOT theirs. ANCIENT EXAMPLES OF DENIAL OF EQUALITY AND BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS TO OTHERS: Of course this practice of running 'ram-shod' over the basic human rights of others is standard operating procedures (SOP) officials of Islam. Let's look at early history of Yemen as follows, <<"There are two opposing schools of thought about historic Jewish-Muslim relations in Yemen. The pessimistic view holds that Jews were subjected to harsh treatment by the repressive religious state, controlled by fanatical Zaydi imams whose sway extended from the environs of the capital city of Sana' a to the central highlands".[source - (Brauer 1934; Schechtman 1961) per www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1690 ]>>. And, <<"Throughout the Islamic world, the Qur'an (9, 29) and the early Caliphs, specifically Omar I, imposed restrictions upon non-Muslims labeled Dhimmis: "Until they pay tribute ...[they must] be humbled." The restrictions involved dress and public behavior, house and synagogue/ church construction, and many other facets of life. (Tritton 1970) Although Dhimmiswere not allowed to own land, they were often subject to the kharaj or "property" tax. More significant, the Dhimmis were systematically forced to pay a poll tax, the jizya, the price of being "a protected minority."[source - (Brauer 1934; Schechtman 1961)per www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1690 ]>>. So we can see the do NOT give equal freedom of religion, basic human right to freedom of conscience and equality. WAS THIS DENIAL OF EQUAL FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE JUST AN ANCIENT THING? Modern examples of forcing their beliefs on others: Let's look at a case in Nigeria where they are forcing their Islamic Sariah religious law on others, <<" KANO, Nigeria (Reuters) - A court in the northern Nigerian city of Kano has fined 45 motorcycle taxi riders for transporting women, in violation of a new rule to comply with Islamic Sharia law, a court official said on Friday. The ban on women passengers, brought in last year to make Kano state traffic laws compatible with Sharia, has caused controversy in the city, which is predominantly Muslim but has a sizable Christian community. Hisbah committees, or volunteers who help uphold Sharia, have clashed with motorcycle taxi riders caught with women passengers. Women are supposed to ride in special motorised..."[source - Reuters]>>. And, <<" Sudan: Criticising Islam & death threat over a woman On September 26th members of Islamic government of Sudan issued a fatwa on best-selling author Kola Boof, a Sudanese woman's writer who lives in California. The details of the fatwa: Kola Boof has been found guilty of "Blasphemy and Treason" Ms. Boof is to be beheaded. The matter was ratified by the following: Hassan Turabi (National Islamic Front), Ali Muhammad Taha (NIF), Sharif al-Tuhami (NIF) Tanzim Wasti (London's Sudan Committee), Saad Faqih and Mohammed Sobieh. Kola Boof points out that she has not been Muslim since around 10 and that the men issuing the fatwa are not qualified to do so. Ms. Boof states that she has been receiving "death messages" and warnings to "shut up" from Sudanese government officials by telephone since February 2002." [source - Associated Press]>>. And, <<"So now we know the facts, straight from the Supreme Court, that a group of Lebanese Muslim gang rapists from south-western Sydney hunted their victims on the basis of their ethnicity and subjected them to hours of degrading, dehumanising torture. The young women, and girls as young as 14, were "very *friendly* persons" and "Aussie pigs", the rapists said. So now that some of the perpetrators are in jail, will those people who cried racism and media "sensationalism" hang their heads in shame? Hardly. ... Even last week, with the conviction of two brothers for their part in the gang rape of Miss D, who was 16 when she was held at gunpoint in a Greenacre park, there were media outlets that downplayed the story and air-brushed race from it. Yet the victims have been crying out for the truth to be told. In court on Friday, one victim gave another a card on which she had written you're an Australian," the rapists told her during the five-hour attack.It's just so inconvenient of the victims to insist on telling the truth. "I looked in his eyes. I had never seen such indifference," one 18-year-old victim, codenamed Miss C, told the court, remembering one of the 14 men who called her "Aussie pig", gang raped her 25 times over a six-hour period in Bankstown and Chullora, and then turned a hose on her. "I'm going to f*** you Leb style," he said. Fourteen gang rapists have been convicted, or pleaded guilty, thanks to the courage of seven victims who testified for days in court as their tormentors smirked nearby, the men's families threatened them and defence lawyers suggested they had enjoyed the rapes. "They're very brave, very strong and very courageous young women," said Salvation Army Major Joyce Harmer, who held the hands of many of the victims through the trials. "They knew this was something they had to do." These were racist crimes. They were hate crimes. The rapists chose their victims on the basis of race. That fact is crucial to this story. If the perpetrators had been Anglo-Celtic Australians, the furore would have been enormous. No newspaper would have left out that fact and you can bet the guilt and shame would have been spread far and wide." [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]>>. And, And from the FrontPageMagazine.com - December 15, 2005, <<"In Australia this week amidst anger over an Islamic man's rape conviction and the bashing of two Aussie life savers, working-class locals erupted in a rampage of anger and brawling in some of the worst racial riots in decades. But there is more to the story than is being repeated in the American mainstream media.... Four days after he set foot in Australia, the rape spree began. And during his sexual assault trial in a New South Wales courtroom, the Pakistani man began to berate one of his tearful 14-year-old victims because she had the temerity to shake her head at his testimony. But she had every reason to express her disgust. After taking an oath on the Qur'an, the man - known only as MSK - told the court he had committed four attacks on girls as young as 13 because they had no right to say "no." They were not covering their face or wearing a headscarf, and therefore, the rapist proclaimed: "I'm not doing anything wrong." MSK is already serving a 22-year jail term for leading his three younger brothers in a gang rape of two other young Sydney girls in 2002. In his own defense, he argued that his cultural background, was responsible for his crimes." [source - the FrontPageMagazine.com - December 15, 2005]>>. Denial of Basic Human Right To Freedom of Conscience: Worshippers of false god(s) believe in absurdities and do not know the difference between treason against a nation and basic human right to change one's religion if one finds something wrong with his/her present religion. Of course irrational reasoning and irrational acts by worshippers of false god(s) is nothing new. It was first recorded over three thousand years ago in 1 Kings 18:21-29, "And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. 22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men. 23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: 24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken. 25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under. 26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made. 27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. 28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them. 29 And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). Notice verses 28 and 29 as some of their descendants are still doing this today. Why? They worship the old middle eastern Moon god who in all likelihood is just the present day evolution of the false god Elijah had to deal with the followers of. Today, worshippers of false gods still behave and think irrationally, here is a statement by one of them that clearly shows how they mix things up. <<" Again.... if they Abandon Islam and join in a rebellion to destroy the government or join a GROUP that is working to destroy or cause instability in the government.. yes... they committed treason and should be executed accounting to Shariah. This is Shariah Law. Western powers like the USA also have the same punishment for those who do this.">> [source - Changing One's Religion Is Not Treason Against the State by Iris the Preacher 2006] And, From the Associated Press the fact that members of Islam even wanted to execute a man in modern times for exercising his basic human right of freedom of conscience, <<"<<" KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man facing a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor said Wednesday. Abdul Rahman, 41, has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country's Islamic laws. His trial started last week and he confessed to becoming a Christian 16 years ago. If convicted, he could be executed. But prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari said questions have been raised about his mental fitness. "We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person," he told The Associated Press. Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination. "Doctors must examine him," he said. "If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him. He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped." It was not immediately clear when he would be examined or when the trial would resume. Authorities have barred attempts by the AP to see Rahman and he is not believed to have a lawyer. A Western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate - both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter - said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case because of the reaction it has caused." [source - Associated Press]>>. So we can see their standard SOP in operation even in modern times. Islam's SOP is the source of much of the strife of today: Let's see what the Weekend Australian (newspaper) had to say on the matter, <<" Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. (December 16, 2005) How can we tolerate such intolerance?" [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]>>. Says it all. ISLAMIC SARAIA LAW IS USED AS AN EXCUSE TO DENY BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS TO OTHERS: First, let's look at an example partially dealt with previously: <<" BBC ^ | 12-13-2005 | Ado Sale Kankiya Nigerian women ignore bike ban Women say there is no public transport alternative Women in the northern Nigerian state of Kano are ignoring a ban stopping them travelling on public motorbike taxis. On Monday religious authorities began implementing the ban passed earlier this year. In accordance with Sharia law, men and women are not allowed to travel together on public transport. The women say there are not enough public transport alternatives in the state that adopted Sharia law in 2000. The BBC's Ado Sale Kankiya in the city of Kano says some 9,000 religious marshals are on the streets to..."[source - BBC - 12-13-2005]>>. Now no one argues with Islam with respect to applying their rights denying law to their own members, but when they apply it to none members it is a denial of basic human rights. But Islam's SOP is to force their beliefs on others just as the apostate (counterfeit) Christian Catholic Church tried to do with their Inquisitions, genocides against the Cathers, burning of none believers at the stake, etc. Both of course are equally wrong and a denial of basic human rights of conscience and freedom. Why this crime against humanity, the denial of basic human right of conscience? The laws of Sharia assume that the highest principle of governance is justice, not freedom. Justice, in this case, means that decisions are made by religious authorities in consonance with the teachings of the Koran. There are no checks on the power of these authorities, as their mandate is given as coming straight from God. Thus Sharia forbids the notion of rule by the people, with laws being made by the people and their elected representatives, i.e., freedom. In contrast, Western civilization holds freedom as the highest principle of governance. Government is by the people, for the people. Laws are made by the people and their elected representatives. Western civilization, and especially American civilization, is based on the concept of preserving freedom by limiting powers through a system of checks and balances. Laws are, deliberately, man made, not taken as coming from God, although religious (Judeo-Christian) teachings are influential in guiding legislation. As one man said as reported by BBC, <<" I have been wrestling with the rights and wrongs of attitudes expressed by Muslim spokesmen, both here in the United States and around the world, since the World Trade Center attack last year. I am not a Muslim, or an expert on Islam, but I have been trying to understand how the world looks from an "Islamic" or "Arabic" perspective. I've wanted to understand why so much public commentary by Muslim spokesmen sounds wrong to my Western ears. I've concluded that much of the Islamic world is doing a poor job of facing up to some grim realities, and doing a good job of blaming everyone else (especially the US and Israel) for their self-inflicted injuries."[Source - BBC]>>. Sharia Law has proven a failure for nations that have tried to implement it: <<"...Acknowledge that every nation of significance that has embraced Islam as the state religion, and has tried to govern according to the laws of Sharia, is a miserable failure. Egypt, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia: These are totalitarian nations that repress their own citizens every bit as savagely as did the former Soviet Union. Citizens in these countries have no freedom, no rights, and no hope for a better life. They cannot speak freely. They can be arrested, imprisoned, tortured, or killed for any reason. The governing authorities can even order mass slaughter of their own people at will (witness Syria)." [ source - BBC]>>. Recognized as wrong by open minded Muslims: <<" Doctor Wafa Sultan in an interview on al-Jazeera said, "The clash we are witnessing is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations; but a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21 st. century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. She made it clear that it is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. In other words, it is a clash between human rights and rights of women, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on the other hand as witnessed recently in Nigeria and Iran. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts and use Shariah Law as the justificanion, and those who treat them like human beings."[source - re-run of an Al-Jazeera program]>>. And, A legal brief in 'The Palm Beach Post' of Monday, March 20, 2006 shows how backward anti-freedom thinking results in serious injustices and the removal of freedom that every human has the right to, freedom of religion of his/her choice. It reported on an Afgan man, 41-year old Abdul Rahman who was put on trial for converting to Christianity. How absurd and not in keeping with the basic principles of freedom. The account said, "Abdul Rahman is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death on a charge of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country's Islamic laws (Shariah Law), a judge said Sunday." The newspaper made the point that this trial highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take here four years after the ouster of the Islamic fundamentalist. This case highlights two things, Shariah Law is a farce and is being used to strip individuals of basic human rights guaranteed to them in the constitutions of most civilized nations. Strange, in civilized lands, Muslims demand their right to freedom of religion, but in their own lands, many seek to deny it to others. [reference - The Palm Beach Post of March 20, 2006]. CONCLUSION: All should consider a law of human freedom written long before the unjust Shariah Law by a religious freedom loving king, Cyrus the Great: The first Charter of Human Rights written 2500 years ago I am Kourosh (Cyrus), great king,...Now that I put the crown of the kingdom of Iran, Babylon, and the nations of the four directions on the head with the help of Ahura, I announce that I will respect the traditions, customs and religions of the nations of my empire and never let any of my governors and subordinates look down on or insult them while I am alive. ...I will impose my monarchy on no nation. Each is free to accept it, and if any one of them rejects it, I never resolve on war to reign. While I am the king...I will never let anyone oppress others,... I will never let anyone take possession of movable and landed properties of the others by force or without compensation. While I am alive, I will prevent unpaid, forced labour. Today, I announce that everyone is free to choose a religion....No one could be penalised for his or her relatives' faults...[source - an archaeological find of a royal decree by Cyrus the Great over 2,500 years ago]. Some members of Islam do NOT want to admit that Shariah Law is a Farce based on actual events that happen because of it and the women downing culture it creates. They say show it to me in the Quran or Hadith knowing full well you are not an expert on either, rather than being honest and open and realizing that a law must be judged by what it produces and NOT obscure writing and wording. In fact, most writing about law in the news and in abstracts deals with its implementation and results not wording. But this fact is put aside by those who do not want to deal with reality; to wit, a law is either good or bad based on whether it provides true justice and/or does NOT. The failing of most laws is in their wording and implementation, and all law makers should be required to state exactly what the purpose of the law is and if that purpose can be meant in another way, it should of course be allowed. When a law produces BAD results, it is a BAD law regardless of its wording. Many laws start out good, but as situations change, they fail to change to meet the new situation and/or keep up with scientific development. A classic example of this is the New Your City Building Code that required lead pipe from the street main to the residence/building being served which may have been good long ago, but not after it was discovered that lead in drinking water was harmful to humans. So it is both hypocritical and a farce when they go to other countries and demand equal rights, but deny them to others in their own countries. Let's start calling a spade a spade. Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
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Post by iris89 on Jul 19, 2006 17:34:14 GMT -5
Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine INTRODUCTION: Land title research in many areas is a very difficult task. In Mexico, the titles to farm land are so clouded it can take years to adequately search them. In some places the granting of title to land by a legitimate granter can go back over 3,500 years. One such place is the land of Palestine where current occupancy has no relationship to whom holds title. Even some of the most famous buildings in the land of Palestine are actually squatters on land to which others hold title. The most famous instance of this is the Temple Mount and its squatter mosque that sits on the site of the ancient temple of ancient Hebrew kingdom and belongs to the Hebrews. This mess with many occupying land as squatters for which others hold title makes for an untenable position when the rightful title holder takes back his/her land, especially so when it is centuries later. The present situation in much of Palestine is like the battle between the squatters and the owners, titleholders of land in the old west in the United States; to wit, squatters wanting to continue to squat and land owners wanting their land back. However, some additional situations enter the picture since many of the land owners - their ancestors - were forced off the their land by the Romans and by later Caliphs. Now of course the rule of law should be applied and the squatters finally brought to their day of reckoning with reality, they have no title to the land they are on. PRINCIPLE OF TITLE IN A NUTSHELL: What title is: Now let's look at what land title is from an encyclopedia, <<" Title is a legal term for an owner's interest in a piece of property. It may also refer to a formal document that serves as evidence of ownership. Conveyance of the document may be required in order to transfer ownership in the property to another person. Title is distinct from possession, a right that often accompanies ownership but is not necessarily sufficient to prove it. In many cases, both possession and title may be transferred independently of each other. [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia].">> Now note, one may be in possession of land, but not title as they are two distinct things as will shortly be shown. Possession and title are NOT the same thing: Let's show this fact that possession and title are not the same thing with illustrattion example provided by an encyclopedia, << The three elements of title are possession, the right of possession, and the right of property. Possession is the actual holding of a thing, with or without any right thereto. The right of possession is the right to legitimacy of possession (with or without actual possession), the evidence for which is such that the law will uphold it unless a better claim is proven. The right of property is that right which, if all relevant facts were known (and allowed), would defeat all other claims. Each of these may be in a different person. For example, suppose A steals from B, what B had previously bought in good faith from C, which C had earlier stolen from D, which had been a heirloom of D's family for generations, but had originally been stolen centuries earlier (though this fact is now forgotten by all) from E. Here A has the possession, B has an apparent right of possession (as evidenced by the purchase), D has the absolute right of possession (being the best claim that can be proven), and the heirs of E, if they knew it, have the right of property, which they cannot prove. Good title consists in uniting these three (possession, right of possession, and right of property) in the same person(s).[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia].">> Now note, something could have been stolen, squatted on, centuries earlier but that does NOT give the person in charge title in any way. Soundness of title - what it depends on: The soundness of title depends on several factors or conditions precedent: First, the higher the position of the granter the more legitimate the title is with the highest granter being, of course, the creator of all there is, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, the supreme being. This followed by Emperors, Kings or Caliphs, and Presidents or Sultans in that order. Second, the earliest granting of title takes precedence over later grants of title. SPECIFIC GRANTING OF TITLE TO ALL LAND IN PALESTINE: Now let's look at who was the granter of title to land in Palestine and to whom: Genesis 15:18 records the conferring of legitimate title to the Promise Land to the Hebrews (Jews) by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael as follows for a record to all men for all of time, "In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:" (American Standard Version; ASV). That this was to be their land per the promise of the creator of all there is, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael is also made clear in Deuteronomy 10:11, "And Jehovah said unto me, Arise, take thy journey before the people; and they shall go in and possess the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give unto them.." (ASV). And, this fact is even shown in the New Testament at Hebrews 11:9, "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:" (ASV). Now the "Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish" says this of the inheritance of the Hebrews, the promised land, <<"The land of promise is constantly spoken of as the inheritance of Israel: the land flowing with milk and honey was given to them by God. #De 4:21 Ps 105:11, &c. So when Israel returns to take possession of the land in a future day, it is still called their inheritance. #Eze 45:1, &c. This all shews that they were and will be an earthly people, but God blessed them on earth in relationship with Himself as Jehovah, and will again bless them on earth when they own the Lord Jesus as their Messiah. In connection with this God calls Israel His inheritance: He hath chosen them for His own inheritance. #Ps 33:12 78:62, &c.[source - Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish]">> In fact the true God (YHWH) of Abraham had very specific instructions with respect the land in the area he had given them in lawful perpetuity as the supreme being, the maker of all there is as shown at Deuteronomy 19:14, "Thou shalt not remove thy neighbor's landmark, which they of old time have set, in thine inheritance which thou shalt inherit, in the land that Jehovah thy God giveth thee to possess it." (ASV); and Job 24:1-2, "Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, do they that know him not see his days? 2 Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof." (ASV); and Proverbs 22:28, "Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set." (ASV); and Proverbs 23:10, "Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:" (ASV). But squatters have violated all these righteous commands of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham. And as shown by Easton's Bible Dictionary, <<" Landmarks could not be removed without incurring the severe displeasure of God." [source - Easton's Revised Bible Dictionary]>>. In fact, the Eclectic Notes on the Bible on Deuteronomy 19:14 notes, <<" Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour's landmark "Thy neighbour's landmark, which they of old time have fixed in thine inheritance," shows that there is a divine apportionment which is not to be interfered with. The inheritance is common to all; all are sons, children, brethren, and have a common portion in Christ and in the Spirit. But in detail each has an assigned portion, and it is to be our care, according to Deuteronomy, that our neighbour has his full portion. This is in keeping with the spirit of grace and consideration for the good of others which marks the book. We have no daughters of Zelophehad here desiring inheritance for themselves; our care here is that our neighbour's inheritance shall not be infringed upon. The inheritance is enjoyed in a neighbourly way; I can only enjoy your bit of it as you enjoy it, and therefore if I remove your landmark I really defraud myself! It is our interest to see that our neighbours enjoy their full assigned portion. In great part we enjoy the inheritance through our brethren; it is blessed to see them enjoying their portion; no one moving spiritually would wish to curtail it in the least degree. This stands in marked contrast with slaying our neighbour, even though such a thing should be done unwittingly. It emphasises the neighbourly character in which the inheritance is taken up. We get on together by fully recognising the portion assigned to each. If any one's landmark is removed it is not only a wrong done to him, but it tends to impoverish all by interfering with the way in which God has given things. The clerical principle has greatly tended to remove landmarks, and has deprived the people of God of what divine favour would have made available in the brethren generally. The arrangements of men, and human order, are simply a removal of landmarks "which they of old time have fixed in thine inheritance." The commandments of the Lord #1Co 14:37 are fixed landmarks, and are not to be disregarded; they would give to each one his true spiritual place amongst the brethren for the benefit of all. Many of our neighbours have had their landmarks removed, and we all suffer from it, but our care should be to give full place to what is assigned by God to each. The inheritance will only be truly and spiritually enjoyed as we are set together in affection, and each holds his portion in relation to the common joy. To be self-centred, or to move independently of one's brethren, is really to lose the good of what God has given to others for our benefit as joint-heirs with them." [source - Eclectic Notes - eclectic Notes on the Bible]>>. Another Bible dictionary says, <<"<<"Promised Land held in trust. Even the people Israel, to whom God had given the land for them to enjoy as landowners, were told by Jehovah that they were not actually owners of it but only held it in trust. He said concerning the sale of a family land estate: "So the land should not be sold in perpetuity, because the land is mine. For you are alien residents and settlers from my standpoint." (Le 25:23) God had ousted the Canaanites from the land for their disgusting practices. He warned he would also take away all title from Israel and drive them out of the land if they followed such practices, and when they later did, they were sent into exile. (Le 18:24-30; 25:18, 19; 26:27-33; Jer 52:27) After 70 years of desolation of their land, from 607 to 537 B.C.E., God mercifully reestablished them, but this time under Gentile domination. Eventually, in 70 C.E., the Romans completely destroyed Jerusalem and scattered its people. Within the nation, tribes were assigned sections of the land or cities inside the boundaries of other tribes. Priests and Levites had cities with pasture grounds. (Jos 15-21) In turn, within the tribes families were allotted inheritances. These divisions became smaller as families subdivided their own allotments because of increase in numbers. This resulted in thorough cultivation and use of the land. Inheritances were not allowed to circulate from one tribe to another. To prevent this, women who inherited land (because there were no living brothers) had to marry within the tribe to hold their inheritance.-Nu 36:1-12." [source - Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2]>>. Earliest grant of title takes precedence over later grants: Now, how does this apply to the granting of title to the land of Palestine? Well the grant of title to Palestine is the oldest recorded grant of title in all human history and occurred about 1,500 B.C., by the creator of all there is, and was in fulfillment of an earlier promise that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael had made to Abraham. Therefore, with respect the land of Palestine, the land was granted to the Hebrews, the descendents of Abraham through Isaac, and it was granted before any other land was granted to anyone. So title to the land of Palestine was granted by the highest possible authority and was the first grant of legitimate title ever made; therefore, the grantees, the Hebrews, have the strongest possible title due to the fact the grantor was the highest possible authority and it was granted at the earliest time. Of course some try to deny that by questioning the Bible, but their objection is without standing. Let's look at the facts. Of course many members of Islam reject what the Bible says, but is this reasonable considering that their Quran like the Book of Mormon is nothing but a knockoff of the Bible? Now the well known rule of precedence is that the earlier document shall have precedence over the later that used information from it just as the earlier granting of land title takes precedence in any title search or action at law over the later. Many overlook the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman as was the Quran and the Book of Mormon. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time. OTHER BACKUP FOR TITLE TO PALESTINE: FIRST, One Muslim actually posted an article on Jews in Yemen that contained the following account proving that the land belongs to the Hebrews, <<" Perhaps this is a moment to be less visionary and more historical. Perhaps also we need to re-focus from how the Middle East problem looks from the perspective of top-down peace-making efforts in distant Oslo or even Camp David to a closer look at the fabric of coexistence of Sephardic and Oriental Jewries with Muslim and Arab societies during the 13 centuries before the re-founding of Israel. In this way, we may be able to discover threads of understanding that might lead us at least part of the way through the maze of current perplexities. In particular, might yet the Yemeni Jewish historical trajectory, from the Arab World to Israel, provide unexplored avenues for narrowing the Muslim-Jewish divide?" [source - www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1690 ]>>. See Part Two On Land: |
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Post by iris89 on Jul 19, 2006 17:35:38 GMT -5
Part 2 on land:
Now notice this clearly shows that the Hebrews had occupied the land that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael and established a nation that existed for over 1,000 years when it says, <<" the 13 centuries before the re-founding of Israel.">>, so those saying Israel is a new nation clearly do NOT know what they are speaking about, actually it is the oldest operating government on earth that just took a hiatus for some centuries. Now where was this kingdom? It is in the land called Palestine.
SECOND, The New Compact Bible Dictionary published by Zondervan Books says this with respect the site where the squatting Dome of the Rock Mosque sits, <<"Temple, the name given to complex of buildings in Jerusalem which was the center of the sacrifical cult for the Hebrews. Three temples stood successively on Mt. Moriah (II Chron. 3:1) in Jerusalem: Solomon's, Zerubbabel's, and Herod the Great's....the Dome of the Rock Mosque which stands on the site of the Temples of Solomon and Herod.">> so clearly this land belongs to the Hebrews even though it was swiped from them by <<" Islamic tradition holds that when Muslims first entered the city of Jerusalem under the leadership of Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab (also known as Umar or Omar) in 637, the ruins of the Temple were being used as a rubbish dump by the Christian inhabitants, perhaps in order to humiliate the Jews and fulfill Jesus' prophecy that not a stone would be left standing on another there; Caliph Omar (contemporary of Muhammad, who had died a few years earlier), ordered it cleaned and performed prayer there. According to some sources, he also ordered a mosque to be constructed at the spot, upon which site the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built several decades later." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia on Temple Mount]>>. However, no where did Caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab ever buy the land and/or obtain title from the Hebrews who held rightful title and ownership.
The modern government of the Hebrews has been most graceful in permitting the continued squatting of the Al-Aqsa Mosque on property to which they hold title and have not even requested rent from the land so illegally occupied. Now some may question, WRONGLY, the Hebrews ownership, but the restrictions placed on Jews visiting this area solidify the point beyond doubt as follows, <<" The Rabbis have ruled that Jews may not enter specific areas (approximately 15%) of the Temple Mount [3] because of the danger of entering the area of the Temple courtyard and the difficulty of fulfilling the ritual requirement of cleansing oneself with the ashes of a red heifer (see Numbers 19), and declared it punishable with kareth, or death by heavenly decree [4]. The boundaries of the areas to be avoided, while having large portions in common, are delineated differently by various rabbinic authorities.
Many Rabbis have "imposed a blanket ban on access for Jews to the entire Temple Mount"[5], given the uncertainty about the location of the permitted areas, an opinion still supported by Rabbis such as Ovadia Yosef, Avraham Shapiro, Eliahu Bakshi-Doron, and Israel Lau. In August 1967, the Chief Rabbis of Israel, Isser Yehuda Unterman and Yitzhak Nissim, in concert with other leading rabbis, asserted that "For generations we have warned against and refrained from entering any part of the Temple Mount."
However, many other rabbis, including Shlomo Goren, former Chief rabbi of Israel, Chaim David Halevi, Dov Lior, Yosef Elboim, Ysrael Ariel, Shar Yeshuv Hacoen and Yuval Sharlo have "strongly encouraged" Jews to visit the permitted sections of the Temple Mount. [6]. During Maimonides' residence in Jerusalem, a synagogue stood on the Temple Mount alongside other structures; Maimonides prayed there. The law committee of the Masorti movement (Conservative Judaism in Israel) has issued two responsa on the subject, both holding that Jews may visit the permitted sections of the Temple Mount. One responsa allows such visits, another encourages them." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia on Temple Mount]>>.
Even Muslim's have acknowledged that the Al-Aqsa Mosque sits on the site of the Temple of Solomon, property of the Hebrew nation as follows, <<"The main reason that the Temple Mount is holy in Judaism is that it was the site of the Temple. This fact provides a reason for its holiness in Islam; it is still considered to be the orthodox Islamic position. A Brief Guide to al-Haram al-Sharif, a booklet published in 1930 by the "Supreme Moslem Council", a body established by the British government to administer waqfs and headed by Hajj Amin al-Husayni during the British Mandate period, states:
"The site is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest times. Its identity with the site of Solomon's Temple is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to universal belief, on which David built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings." A footnote refers the reader to 2 Samuel 26:25.
More recent examples include a fatwa issued by the Saudi Sheikh M. S. al-Munajjid, quoted on IslamOnline, 18 March 2001, stating that: Al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem) was the first of the two qiblahs (prayer direction), and is one of the three mosques to which people may travel for the purpose of worship. And it was said that it was built by Sulayman (Solomon), as stated in Sunan an-Nasa'i and classed as authentic by al-Albani." [source - - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia on Temple Mount]>>.
So there can be NO disputing that a great Hebrew nation existed and had title given by the highest authority possible, the creator of all there is, the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, and that they built cities and grand temples on this land granted to them.
THIRD, Another Bible dictionary with a more amplified account of the Temple of Solomon says, <<"A divine habitation, sacred place or sanctuary, either physical or spiritual, that is employed for worship. The Hebrew word heh·khal', translated "temple," also means "palace." The Greek hi·e·ron' and na·os' are both rendered "temple" and may refer to the entire temple complex or to its central edifice; na·os', meaning "sanctuary" or "divine habitation (dwelling)," at times refers specifically to the sacred inner rooms of the temple.
Solomon's Temple. King David entertained a strong desire to build a house for Jehovah, to contain the ark of the covenant, which was "dwelling in the middle of tent cloths." Jehovah was pleased with David's proposal but told him that, because he had shed much blood in warfare, his son (Solomon) would be privileged to do the building. This was not to say that God did not approve David's wars fought in behalf of Jehovah's name and His people. But the temple was to be built in peace by a man of peace.-2Sa 7:1-16; 1Ki 5:3-5; 8:17; 1Ch 17:1-14; 22:6-10.
Cost. Later David purchased the threshing floor of Ornan (Araunah) the Jebusite on Mount Moriah as the temple site. (2Sa 24:24, 25; 1Ch 21:24, 25)[[Note, King David purchased the land from his subject to build the temple and did not swipe it as Muslim Calips later did; therefore, he had good title.]] He amassed 100,000 talents of gold, 1,000,000 talents of silver, and copper and iron in great abundance, besides contributing from his personal fortune 3,000 talents of gold and 7,000 talents of silver. He also received as contributions from the princes, gold worth 5,000 talents and 10,000 darics and silver worth 10,000 talents, as well as much iron and copper. (1Ch 22:14; 29:3-7) This total, amounting to 108,000 talents and 10,000 darics of gold and 1,017,000 talents of silver, would be worth $48,337,047,000 at current values. His son Solomon did not spend the entire amount in building the temple; the remainder he put in the temple treasury.-1Ki 7:51; 2Ch 5:1.
Workmen. King Solomon began building the temple for Jehovah in the fourth year of his reign (1034 B.C.E.), in the second month, Ziv, following the architectural plan that David had received by inspiration. (1Ki 6:1; 1Ch 28:11-19) The work continued over a seven-year period. (1Ki 6:37, 38) In exchange for wheat, barley, oil, and wine, Hiram king of Tyre supplied timbers from Lebanon along with skilled workers in wood and stone, and one special expert, also named Hiram, whose father was a Tyrian and his mother an Israelitess of the tribe of Naphtali. This man was a fine workman in gold, silver, copper, iron, wood, stones, and fabrics.-1Ki 5:8-11, 18; 7:13, 14, 40, 45; 2Ch 2:13-16.
In organizing the work, Solomon conscripted 30,000 men out of Israel, sending them to Lebanon in shifts of 10,000 for a month, with a two-month stay at home between shifts. (1Ki 5:13, 14) As burden bearers, he conscripted 70,000 from among the "alien residents" in the land, and as cutters, 80,000. (1Ki 5:15; 9:20, 21; 2Ch 2:2) As foremen over the work, Solomon appointed 550 men and apparently 3,300 as assistants. (1Ki 5:16; 9:22, 23) It appears that, of these, 250 were Israelites and 3,600 were "alien residents" in Israel.-2Ch 2:17, 18...
History. This temple existed until 607 B.C.E., when it was destroyed by the Babylonian army under King Nebuchadnezzar. (2Ki 25:9; 2Ch 36:19; Jer 52:13) Because of the falling away of Israel to false religion, God permitted the nations to harass Judah and Jerusalem, at times stripping the temple of its treasures. The temple also suffered periods of neglect. King Shishak of Egypt robbed it of its treasures (993 B.C.E.) in the days of Rehoboam the son of Solomon, only about 33 years after its inauguration. (1Ki 14:25, 26; 2Ch 12:9) King Asa (977-937 B.C.E.) had respect for Jehovah's house, but to protect Jerusalem he foolishly bribed King Ben-hadad I of Syria, with silver and gold from the treasures of the temple, to break his covenant with Baasha king of Israel.-1Ki 15:18, 19; 2Ch 15:17, 18; 16:2, 3.
After a period of turbulence and neglect of the temple, King Jehoash of Judah (898-859 B.C.E.) oversaw its repair. (2Ki 12:4-12; 2Ch 24:4-14) In the days of his son Amaziah, Jehoash king of Israel robbed it. (2Ki 14:13, 14) King Jotham (777-762 B.C.E.) did some construction work on the temple area, building "the upper gate." (2Ki 15:32, 35; 2Ch 27:1, 3) King Ahaz of Judah (761-746 B.C.E.) not only sent the treasures of the temple to Tiglath-pileser III, king of Assyria, as a bribe but he also polluted the temple by building an altar patterned after one in Damascus and by replacing the copper altar of the temple with it. (2Ki 16:5-16) Finally he closed the doors of Jehovah's house.-2Ch 28:24.
Ahaz' son Hezekiah (745-717 B.C.E.) did what he could to undo the bad works of his father. At the very beginning of his reign, he reopened the temple and had it cleaned up. (2Ch 29:3, 15, 16) However, later on, for fear of Sennacherib king of Assyria, he cut off the doors and the doorposts of the temple that he himself had caused to be overlaid with gold and sent them to Sennacherib.-2Ki 18:15, 16.
But when Hezekiah died, the temple entered a half century of desecration and disrepair. His son Manasseh (716-662 B.C.E.) went beyond any of Judah's previous kings in wickedness, setting up altars "to all the army of the heavens in two courtyards of the house of Jehovah." (2Ki 21:1-5; 2Ch 33:1-4) By the time of Manasseh's grandson Josiah (659-629 B.C.E.), the formerly magnificent edifice was in a state of disrepair. Evidently it was in a disorganized or cluttered condition, for High Priest Hilkiah's finding the book of the Law (likely an original scroll written by Moses) was an exciting discovery. (2Ki 22:3-13; 2Ch 34:8-21) After the temple's repair and cleansing, the greatest Passover since the days of Samuel the prophet was celebrated. (2Ki 23:21-23; 2Ch 35:17-19) This was during the ministry of the prophet Jeremiah. (Jer 1:1-3) From this time until the temple's destruction, it remained open and in use by the priesthood, though many of the priests were corrupt.
The Temple Built by Zerubbabel. As foretold by Jehovah's prophet Isaiah, God raised up Cyrus king of Persia as a liberator of Israel from the power of Babylon. (Isa 45:1) Jehovah also stirred up his own people under the leadership of Zerubbabel of the tribe of Judah to return to Jerusalem. This they did in 537 B.C.E., after 70 years of desolation, as Jeremiah had foretold, for the purpose of rebuilding the temple. (Ezr 1:1-6; 2:1, 2; Jer 29:10) This structure, though not nearly so glorious as Solomon's temple, endured longer, standing for nearly 500 years, from 515 B.C.E. to very late in the first century B.C.E. (The temple built by Solomon had served about 420 years, from 1027 to 607 B.C.E.)
In Cyrus' decree he ordered: "As for anyone that is left from all the places where he is residing as an alien, let the men of his place assist him with silver and with gold and with goods and with domestic animals along with the voluntary offering for the house of the true God, which was in Jerusalem." (Ezr 1:1-4) Cyrus also returned 5,400 vessels of gold and silver that Nebuchadnezzar had taken from Solomon's temple.-Ezr 1:7-11.
In the seventh month (Ethanim, or Tishri) of the year 537 B.C.E., the altar was set up; and in the following year, the foundation of the new temple was laid. As Solomon had done, the builders hired Sidonians and Tyrians to bring cedar timbers from Lebanon. (Ezr 3:7) Opposition, particularly from the Samaritans, disheartened the builders, and after about 15 years those opposers even incited the king of Persia to ban the work.-Ezr 4...
The Temple Rebuilt by Herod. This temple is not described in any detail in the Scriptures. The primary source is Josephus, who personally saw the structure and who reports on its construction in The Jewish War and Jewish Antiquities. The Jewish Mishnah supplies some information, and a little is gained from archaeology. Therefore the description set forth here is from these sources, which in some instances may be open to question.-PICTURE, Vol. 2, p. 543.
In The Jewish War (I, 401 [xxi, 1]), Josephus says that Herod rebuilt the temple in the 15th year of his reign, but in Jewish Antiquities (XV, 380 [xi, 1]), he says it was in the 18th year. This latter date is generally accepted by scholars, although the beginning of Herod's reign, or how Josephus calculated it, is not established with certainty. The sanctuary itself took 18 months to build, but the courtyards, and so forth, were under construction for eight years. When certain Jews approached Jesus Christ in 30 C.E., saying, "This temple was built in forty-six years" (Joh 2:20), these Jews were apparently talking about the work that continued on the complex of courts and buildings up until then. The work was not finished until about six years before the destruction of the temple in 70 C.E.
Because of hatred and distrust of Herod, the Jews would not permit him to rebuild the temple, as he proposed, until he had everything prepared for the new building. For the same reason they did not consider this temple as a third one, but only as a rebuilt one, speaking only of the first and second temples (Solomon's and Zerubbabel's).
As to Josephus' measurements, Smith's Dictionary of the Bible (1889, Vol. IV, p. 3203) says: "His horizontal dimensions are so minutely accurate that we almost suspect he had before his eyes, when writing, some ground-plan of the building prepared in the quartermaster-general's department of Titus's army. They form a strange contrast with his dimensions in height, which, with scarcely an exception, can be shown to be exaggerated, generally doubled. As the buildings were all thrown down during the siege, it was impossible to convict him of error in respect to elevations." [source - Insight to the Scripture, Vol. 2]>>.
CONCLUSION:
So those who claim that the modern nation of Israel is a new nation are without any foundation. The modern nation of Israel is just the RETURN of the ancient nation of Israel after a long hiatus; to wit, it is just the Hebrews reclaiming their land and nation that belongs to them.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Post by iris89 on Jul 24, 2006 12:54:43 GMT -5
Hi Everyone You need to learn the SOP and goals of greedy Ishmaelites, not none greedy ones such as myself. Bogus Claims of Those Against World Tranquility With Respect Who Is a Hebrew (Jew): INTRODUCTION: Many Ishmaelites, the greedy ones, want to destroy world peace and tranquility due to their greed for land that is NOT theirs. The Ishmaelites control over 98 percent of the middle east, and some are so greedy they do not want their brother tribe, the Hebrews, even to have the less than two (2) percent of the land that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael gave to them in perpetuity. To this end they harass their brother tribe and destroy the peace and tranquility of the world due to their greed. To stir up violence and destroy world tranquility they throw rockets at the brother tribe’s nation and kidnap his soldiers peacefully manning their border post within the land that belongs to them. Now the question is why do the greedy Ishmaelites have so much hate for their brother tribe, the Hebrews, and so much desire to destroy world tranquility; whereas, they should have a love for their brother tribe, the Hebrews and should want peace? At present, many of these greedy Ishmaleites, I am referring only to the greedy ones and not to all Ishmaelites of which I am one, falsely claim they have no jobs/employment and blame it on their brother tribe, the Hebrews; whereas, the blame actually belongs on the greedy Ishmaleites who would rather spend their time hating and their money on implements of violence instead using their time and resources for the setting up businesses and factories to provide employment. Something is wrong with them for letting greed destroy common sense and a chance to progress. THE BIG QUESTION: Why are they so greedy and why do they love violence and putting others down instead of tranquility and friendly relationships in keeping with what Jesus (Yeshua) said at Matthew 22:37-40, "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); and Matthew 5:43, " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy." (AV); and Matthew 19:19, "Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and Matthew 22:39, " And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and Matthew 12:31, "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (AV); and Romans 13:9, "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); Galatians 5:14, " For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (AV); and James 2:8, "If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:" (AV). Now why are you so full of hate and a desire for violence and so against world tranquility and peace? As one Australian newspaper noted, <<"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. (December 16, 2005) How can we tolerate such intolerance?" [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005]>>. Says it all. THEY CAN NOT ACCEPT TRUTH SO THEY REJECT THE BIBLE: Since they can NOT accept the truth, they reject the word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, and even some of them have the nerve to call it obsolete. Let’s look at the facts, Of course many members of Islam reject what the Bible says, but is this reasonable considering that their Quran like the Book of Mormon is nothing but a knockoff of the Bible? Now the well known rule of precedence is that the earlier document shall have precedence over the later that used information from it just as the earlier granting of land title takes precedence in any title search or action at law over the later. Many overlook the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman as was the Quran and the Book of Mormon. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time. OBFUSCIATION OF THE FACTS AND OUTRIGHT TOTAL GREED: Outright Greed: One such obfuscating individual even said the following, <<"I am just thinking how to put the fact that I want my descendants to invade the United States and force all current day Americans into small encampments with little to no food or water, into a nice little verse. Hmmm "Thou shalt murderest the Americans, for the Land is yours....from Utah to Texas...because I say so....who cares about the current day inhabitants; do I look like I care? Punk *** squatters best recognize....Women to children, they shalt leave their homes...I mean my homes, no wait your homes feel me holmes? ...And if they dont leave, then bomb their education centers, places of worship, and their power stations...Ensure that the brutality far surpasses that which was once perpertrated upon ourselves, in fact use the Spanish Inquisition as constant excuse for your murdering, raping and plundering of their wait I mean, your land...It has been written.". Remember those words everyone, for 2,000 years later they can be used as a documented piece of evidence that proves that my descendants are the rightful owners of the United States.">> clearly showing their love of violence and extreme greed. The above clearly shows their love of violence and greed to grab the land of hother. This clearly shows how they love to obfuscate and distort the issue of whose land it is, but this has always been the Standard Operating Principle (SOP) of the greedy Ishmaelites. Let’s look at the facts, as previously shown by an Australian newspaper, 95 percent of the violence and destruction we see in the world so far in 2006 has been caused by greedy Ishmaelites, such things as train bombings, their different sects bombing each other’s mosques and killing each others members, suicide bombers, road side bombs, bus bombings, kidnapping of other peoples soldiers to ignite violence, going irrationally insane over stupid cartoons, etc. Of course this has been their SOP from the beginning as shown by what they did in the Eighth Century as one example, In 711 the Visigothic were ruling in Spain and in no way attacking Islam, yet Islam attacked them without any real provocation. Yes, of course they claimed they had provocation, i.e., they claimed that last Visigoth king, Roderick had seduced the young Florinda, daughter of Julian, Visigothic governor of Ceuta in north Africa an apostate (counterfeit) Christian and they were out to avenge this; but clearly two things stand out, First, it was none of their business, Second, there is no evidence that this ever occurred. Now Let's look at proof that the greedy Ishmaleites were just out to grab land that belonged to others, <<" In 711 CE Tariq ibn Ziyad, the governor of Tangiers, landed in Gibraltar with around 10,000 men, mostly Berbers (indigenous North Africans). He had some of Roderick's Visigoth rivals as allies. In the same or following year in the Cadiz province, Roderick's army was decimated and he is thought to have drowned as he fled. The Visigothic survivors fled to the north of Spain, and within a few years, the Muslims had taken over the rest of the Iberian Peninsula bar a few areas in the Asturian Mountains bordering France. [source - www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/0075_popup9.htm] As can easily be seen, the greedy Ishmaelites, note this refers only to the greedy Ishmaelites and not all Ishmaelites, were out to swipe land NOT belonging to them and used Tariq ibn Ziyad, a Muslim general, to accomplish this terrible wrong. This of course is not being peaceful in any way. Obfuscation by the Greedy Ishmaelites: They try to obfuscate the issue which is they want the entire middle east of which they now have over 98 percent for themselves, and do not want their brother tribe to have even less than two (2) percent of it even though this very small amount was given to them by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael – what unabated GREED. They make irrelevant claims such as European Jews (Hebrews) are not really Hebrews and have no right to the land that the creator of all there is gave to the Hebrews, and other bogus claims to ‘self justify’ their greed. But facts do not agree with their claims. Let’s look at what one pastor wrote showing the facts from the Bible, <<" The nation of Israel, or the descendants of Jacob multiplied in Egypt into a great and mighty nation from the wombs of Gentile men and women who became Jews by choice. The whole meaning of the word *proselyte* as it relates to the Jewish religion is a Jew by choice. Again, these Gentile women and their children became identified into the tribes of which their male husband descended. These also adopted and inherited all of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These became joint heirs of all the blessings and the promises. You guess the skin color. Were the original Jews really white? Out of Egypt came a great multitude. Of this multitude it is written that there was also a *mixed* multitude (Exodus 12:38). What are we to make of the word *mixed* except *mingled seed* of the sons, grandsons, and great grandsons unto the fourth generation of Jacob with the Egyptian bloodline. This mixed bloodline multitude stood at Mount Sinai with all the others and swore into the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that they would do all that was commanded of them that day (Exodus 19:8). This was in effect a confession of two things: 1.) The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, would become their God and: 2.) The people of Israel would become their people. After this conversion agreement the mixed and mingled multitude became Jews by choice and came under the Covenant of Sinai and they are then after numbered with the nation of Israel. There existed no distinction between these and the others. God made of the converted Gentiles no difference than those he considered Israelites at Mount Sinai. Conversion then to God and the willingness to place one's self under the Almighty God as his worshiper, was considered adoption into the Israel of God. Among males, the final act of conversion was circumcision. Circumcision was considered coming under the binding promises and covenant of Abraham that preceded the Law by 430 years. Children born of this circumcision were thence considered Israelites and members of their respective tribe and expected by faith the fulfillment of the promise of Abraham upon them." [source - Dual Identity, Jew By Choice by Cohen G. Reckart, Pastor and the Bible] >>. Also, DNA evidence clearly shows that the contentions of the greedy is NOT so. Let’s look at the facts, <<? "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora." - M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000 ? In addition to oral tradition and copious historical evidence, the genetic evidence stands firmly behind the common ancestry of both Ashkenazim and Sephardim in the Near East, and against any non-Jewish origin for either of these groups. Below are a collection of scientific journal articles including abstracts available worldwide on Pubmed and Medline. Jewish and middle eastern non-jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes. Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, Bonner MR, Jarjanazi H, Karafet T, Santachiara-Benerecetti S, Oppenheim A, Jobling MA, Jenkins T, Ostrer H, Bonne-Tamir B Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721; Department of Genetics, Universita degli Studi di Pavia, Pavia 27100, Italy; Hadassah Medical School, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem 91120, Israel. [Medline record in process] Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora. PMID: 10801975, UI: 20300976 Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2000 Jun 6;97(12):6769-74 ? The common, Near-Eastern origin of Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews supported by Y-chromosome similarity. Santachiara Benerecetti AS, Semino O, Passarino G, Torroni A, Brthingya R, Fellous M, Modiano G Dipartimento di Biologia Cellulare, Universita della Calabria, Cosenza, Italy. About 80 Sephardim, 80 Ashkenazim and 100 Czechoslovaks were examined for the Y-specific RFLPs revealed by the probes p12f2 and p49a,f on TaqI DNA digests. The aim of the study was to investigate the origin of the Ashkenazi gene pool through the analysis of markers which, having an exclusively holoandric transmission, are useful to estimate paternal gene flow. The comparison of the two groups of Jews with each other and with Czechoslovaks (which have been taken as a representative source of foreign Y-chromosomes for Ashkenazim) shows a great similarity between Sephardim and Ashkenazim who are very different from Czechoslovaks. On the other hand both groups of Jews appear to be closely related to Lebanese. A preliminary evaluation suggests that the contribution of foreign males to the Ashkenazi gene pool has been very low (1% or less per generation)." [source - The Peace Encyclopedia]>>. CONCLUSION: Now the facts are simple. The Ishmaelites, the greedy ones, are simply out to destroy world peace and tranquility as a subterfuge to swipe ever more land from others with this clearly being shown in the greedy statement of one of them previously presented. They care not for facts, only to satiate their greed. Obfuscation is just another tool in their SOP with respect satiating their greed. They care NOT for world tranquility and/or peace and hate all others. Remember John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (AV) and beware of this evil. Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
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Post by iris89 on Jul 26, 2006 14:11:25 GMT -5
The Quran Testifies to The Kingdom of the Hebrews:
INTRODUCTION AND BACKGROUND:
Today greed is a major driving force in the present system of things, and this research report will be discussing the greed of the sons of Abraham through Ishmael for that which was given to the sons of Abraham through Isaac. In ancient and modern times, the sons of Abraham through Ishmael held possession to most of the middle east, but as in ancient times, they want all of it even though it in no way belongs to them. They even want the small area of Palestine that the true God (YHWH) of Abraham gave to the sons of Abraham through Isaac, the Hebrews, to perpetuity. The Bible clearly shows that the land was promised to the sons of Isaac by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael at Genesis 15:18, Deuteronomy 9:27-28, and Hebrews 11:9, and an encyclopedia says the following regarding it, <<"The common Biblical phrase used to refer to the territories actually settled by Israelites (as opposed to theoretical promises) is "from Dan to Beersheba" (or its variant "from Beersheba to Dan"), which occurs in the Biblical verses Judges 20:1, 1 Samuel 3:20, 2 Samuel 3:10, 2 Samuel 17:11, 2 Samuel 24:2, 2 Samuel 24:15, 1 Kings 4:25, 1 Chronicles 21:2, and 2 Chronicles 30:5." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>.
Now the "Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish" says this of the inheritance of the Hebrews, the promised land, <<"The land of promise is constantly spoken of as the inheritance of Israel: the land flowing with milk and honey was given to them by God. #De 4:21 Ps 105:11, &c. So when Israel returns to take possession of the land in a future day, it is still called their inheritance. #Eze 45:1, &c. This all shews that they were and will be an earthly people, but God blessed them on earth in relationship with Himself as Jehovah, and will again bless them on earth when they own the Lord Jesus as their Messiah. In connection with this God calls Israel His inheritance: He hath chosen them for His own inheritance. #Ps 33:12 78:62, &c.[source - Concise Bible Dictionary by George Morrish]">>
Another Bible dictionary says, <<"Promised Land held in trust. Even the people Israel, to whom God had given the land for them to enjoy as landowners, were told by Jehovah that they were not actually owners of it but only held it in trust. He said concerning the sale of a family land estate: "So the land should not be sold in perpetuity, because the land is mine. For you are alien residents and settlers from my standpoint." (Le 25:23) God had ousted the Canaanites from the land for their disgusting practices. He warned he would also take away all title from Israel and drive them out of the land if they followed such practices, and when they later did, they were sent into exile. (Le 18:24-30; 25:18, 19; 26:27-33; Jer 52:27) After 70 years of desolation of their land, from 607 to 537 B.C.E., God mercifully reestablished them, but this time under Gentile domination. Eventually, in 70 C.E., the Romans completely destroyed Jerusalem and scattered its people.
Within the nation, tribes were assigned sections of the land or cities inside the boundaries of other tribes. Priests and Levites had cities with pasture grounds. (Jos 15-21) In turn, within the tribes families were allotted inheritances. These divisions became smaller as families subdivided their own allotments because of increase in numbers. This resulted in thorough cultivation and use of the land. Inheritances were not allowed to circulate from one tribe to another. To prevent this, women who inherited land (because there were no living brothers) had to marry within the tribe to hold their inheritance.-Nu 36:1-12." [source - Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2]>>.
Now how do the sons of Abraham through Ishmael claim it is their land, why by saying that the land was given to all the sons of Abraham, but that is an outright lie as Joshua was given the task of taking possession of it only for the Israelites (Hebrews) the sons of Abraham through Isaac. Why? Because it was through their line that the promised seed would come per Isaiah 9:6-7.
NOW LET'S LOOK AT THE FACTS WITH RESPECT ISHMAEL AND THE PROMISE OF THE LAND:
Sarah was informed that through her son, Isaac, would come the promised heir as shown at Genesis 17:7- And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. 15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. 16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. 17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear? 18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! 19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. 22 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
So as can be seen the covenant that was established with Abraham was with respect his son, Isaac, by his wife Sarah (Sarai), and NOT with respect his son, Ishmael so the land of Palestine then would only belong to the sons of Abraham through Isaac and NOT Ishmael. This was later shown by the ancient kingdom of the Hebrews that at some times existed as two kings and the history made by the Hebrew kings of these kings.
And Numbers 26:52-56, makes if very clear that Palestine belonged exclusively to the Hebrews as follows, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 53 Unto these the land shall be divided for an inheritance according to the number of names. 54 To many thou shalt give the more inheritance, and to few thou shalt give the less inheritance: to every one shall his inheritance be given according to those that were numbered of him. 55 Notwithstanding the land shall be divided by lot: according to the names of the tribes of their fathers they shall inherit. 56 According to the lot shall the possession thereof be divided between many and few." (AV) so it is clear that those falsely alleging that the promise also applies to Ishmael are untruth tellers who do NOT know what they are talking about. Numbers 33:54 further makes this clear, "And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man's inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit." (AV). Ad does Numbers 36:1-2, "And the chief fathers of the families of the children of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, of the families of the sons of Joseph, came near, and spake before Moses, and before the princes, the chief fathers of the children of Israel: 2 And they said, The LORD commanded my lord to give the land for an inheritance by lot to the children of Israel: and my lord was commanded by the LORD to give the inheritance of Zelophehad our brother unto his daughters." (AV).
And the actual dividing up of the land by the Hebrews is as follows. And Joshua 13:6 makes this clear when Joshua is ordered to drive out the squatters as follows, "All the inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon unto Misrephothmaim, and all the Sidonians, them will I drive out from before the children of Israel: only divide thou it by lot unto the Israelites for an inheritance, as I have commanded thee." (AV); and Joshua 14:1-2, "And these are the countries which the children of Israel inherited in the land of Canaan, which Eleazar the priest, and Joshua the son of Nun, and the heads of the fathers of the tribes of the children of Israel, distributed for inheritance to them. 2 By lot was their inheritance, as the LORD commanded by the hand of Moses, for the nine tribes, and for the half tribe." (AV); and Joshua 15:1, "This then was the lot of the tribe of the children of Judah by their families; even to the border of Edom the wilderness of Zin southward was the uttermost part of the south coast." (AV); and Joshua 17:1-2, "There was also a lot for the tribe of Manasseh; for he was the firstborn of Joseph; to wit, for Machir the firstborn of Manasseh, the father of Gilead: because he was a man of war, therefore he had Gilead and Bashan. 2 There was also a lot for the rest of the children of Manasseh by their families; for the children of Abiezer, and for the children of Helek, and for the children of Asriel, and for the children of Shechem, and for the children of Hepher, and for the children of Shemida: these were the male children of Manasseh the son of Joseph by their families." (AV); and Joshua 17:14-17, "And the children of Joseph spake unto Joshua, saying, Why hast thou given me but one lot and one portion to inherit, seeing I am a great people, forasmuch as the LORD hath blessed me hitherto?
15 And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee. 16 And the children of Joseph said, The hill is not enough for us: and all the Canaanites that dwell in the land of the valley have chariots of iron, both they who are of Bethshean and her towns, and they who are of the valley of Jezreel. 17 And Joshua spake unto the house of Joseph, even to Ephraim and to Manasseh, saying, Thou art a great people, and hast great power: thou shalt not have one lot only:" (AV); and Joshua 18:6-11, "Ye shall therefore describe the land into seven parts, and bring the description hither to me, that I may cast lots for you here before the LORD our God. 7 But the Levites have no part among you; for the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance: and Gad, and Reuben, and half the tribe of Manasseh, have received their inheritance beyond Jordan on the east, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave them. 8 And the men arose, and went away: and Joshua charged them that went to describe the land, saying, Go and walk through the land, and describe it, and come again to me, that I may here cast lots for you before the LORD in Shiloh. 9 And the men went and passed through the land, and described it by cities into seven parts in a book, and came again to Joshua to the host at Shiloh. 10 And Joshua cast lots for them in Shiloh before the LORD: and there Joshua divided the land unto the children of Israel according to their divisions. 11 And the lot of the tribe of the children of Benjamin came up according to their families: and the coast of their lot came forth between the children of Judah and the children of Joseph." (AV).
So it is quite clear that the promise of the land, Palestine, and the granting of it was exclusively to the Hebrews, the descendents of Abraham through Isaac, and that it in no way applied to Ishmael.
SOME FALSE REASONING AND ITS FALACY:
Of course many members of Islam reject what the Bible says, but is this reasonable considering that their Quran like the Book of Mormon is nothing but a knockoff of the Bible? Now the well known rule of precedence is that the earlier document shall have precedence over the later that used information from it just as the earlier granting of land title takes precedence in any title search or action at law over the later. Many overlook the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman as was the Quran and the Book of Mormon. It has over 40 individual writers who wrote under divine inspiration/guidance putting the thoughts of God (YHWH) into the words of men much as transcribing secretaries today taking transcription and then later typing it out. In other words one real author, God (YHWH), and many scribes each of whom wrote in his own style over a period of approximately 1,600 years. All of what people call or consider inconsistencies are really not such, but most often just a problem of translation and/or understanding, i.e., lack of understanding of what the original writer writing in his own language and culture meant/said in his original writing. What is remarkable, is the writers over such a period of time all wrote in harmony when even most posters on threads on this forum can not even stay on track or subject over a period of a few days and/or weeks at most with the original subject of the thread. This fact of harmony over a period so great as to almost stagger the imagination shows that it had one guiding force or author who divinely inspired its writers as humans of their own volition can not keep on track over short periods of time.
Now we will look at proof from the distorted Bible knockoff, the Quran, to its testimony that the Hebrews had a great kingdom under King Solomon.
TESTIMONY FROM THE QURAN WITH RESPECT THE ANCIENT KINGDOM OF THE HEBREWS:
The distorted Bible knockoff, the Quran, gives abundant testimony to the existence to the ancient kingdom of the Hebrews that has recently come out of a long hiatus. This will now be shown from three different versions of the Quran that testify to this kingdom under King Solomon and a visit by the Queen of Sheba.
AN-NAML (THE ANT, THE ANTS), Sura 27:
027.020
YUSUFALI: And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees?
PICKTHAL: And he sought among the birds and said: How is it that I see not the hoopoe, or is he among the absent?
SHAKIR: And he reviewed the birds, then said: How is it I see not the hoopoe or is it that he is of the absentees?
027.021
YUSUFALI: "I will certainly punish him with a severe penalty, or execute him, unless he bring me a clear reason (for absence)."
PICKTHAL: I verily will punish him with hard punishment or I verily will slay him, or he verily shall bring me a plain excuse.
SHAKIR: I will most certainly punish him with a severe punishment, or kill him, or he shall bring to me a clear plea.
027.022
YUSUFALI: But the Hoopoe tarried not far: he (came up and) said: "I have compassed (territory) which thou hast not compassed, and I have come to thee from Saba with tidings true.
PICKTHAL: But he was not long in coming, and he said: I have found out (a thing) that thou apprehendest not, and I come unto thee from Sheba with sure tidings.
SHAKIR: And he tarried not long, then said: I comprehend that which you do not comprehend and I have brought to you a sure information from Sheba.
027.023
YUSUFALI: "I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne.
PICKTHAL: Lo! I found a woman ruling over them, and she hath been given (abundance) of all things, and hers is a mighty throne.
SHAKIR: Surely I found a woman ruling over them, and she has been given abundance and she has a mighty throne:
027.024
YUSUFALI: "I found her and her people worshipping the sun besides Allah: Satan has made their deeds seem pleasing in their eyes, and has kept them away from the Path,- so they receive no guidance,-
PICKTHAL: I found her and her people worshipping the sun instead of Allah; and Satan maketh their works fairseeming unto them, and debarreth them from the way (of Truth), so that they go not aright;
SHAKIR: I found her and her people adoring the sun instead of Allah, and the Shaitan has made their deeds fair-seeming to them and thus turned them from the way, so they do not go aright
027.025
YUSUFALI: "(Kept them away from the Path), that they should not worship Allah, Who brings to light what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and knows what ye hide and what ye reveal.
PICKTHAL: So that they worship not Allah, Who bringeth forth the hidden in the heavens and the earth, and knoweth what ye hide and what ye proclaim,
SHAKIR: That they do not make obeisance to Allah, Who brings forth what is hidden in the heavens and the earth and knows what you hide and what you make manifest:
027.026
YUSUFALI: "Allah!- there is no god but He!- Lord of the Throne Supreme!"
PICKTHAL: Allah; there is no Allah save Him, the Lord of the Tremendous Throne.
SHAKIR: Allah, there is no god but He: He is the Lord of mighty power.
027.027
YUSUFALI: (Solomon) said: "Soon shall we see whether thou hast told the truth or lied!
PICKTHAL: (Solomon) said: We shall see whether thou speakest truth or whether thou art of the liars.
SHAKIR: He said: We will see whether you have told the truth or whether you are of the liars:
027.028
YUSUFALI: "Go thou, with this letter of mine, and deliver it to them: then draw back from them, and (wait to) see what answer they return"...
PICKTHAL: Go with this my letter and throw it down unto them; then turn away and see what (answer) they return,
SHAKIR: Take this my letter and hand it over to them, then turn away from them and see what (answer) they return.
027.029
YUSUFALI: (The queen) said: "Ye chiefs! here is delivered to me - a letter worthy of respect.
PICKTHAL: (The Queen of Sheba) said (when she received the letter): O chieftains! Lo! there hath been thrown unto me a noble letter.
SHAKIR: She said: O chief! surely an honorable letter has been delivered to me
027.030
YUSUFALI: "It is from Solomon, and is (as follows): 'In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful:
PICKTHAL: Lo! it is from Solomon, and lo! it is: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful;
SHAKIR: Surely it is from Sulaiman, and surely it is in the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful;
027.031
YUSUFALI: "'Be ye not arrogant against me, but come to me in submission (to the true Religion).'"
PICKTHAL: Exalt not yourselves against me, but come unto me as those who surrender.
SHAKIR: Saying: exalt not yourselves against me and come to me in submission.
027.032
YUSUFALI: She said: "Ye chiefs! advise me in (this) my affair: no affair have I decided except in your presence."
PICKTHAL: She said: O chieftains! Pronounce for me in my case. I decide no case till ye are present with me.
SHAKIR: She said: O chiefs! give me advice respecting my affair: I never decide an affair until you are in my presence.
027.033
YUSUFALI: They said: "We are endued with strength, and given to vehement war: but the command is with thee; so consider what thou wilt command."
PICKTHAL: They said: We are lords of might and lords of great prowess, but it is for thee to command; so consider what thou wilt command.
SHAKIR: They said: We are possessors of strength and possessors of mighty prowess, and the command is yours, therefore see what you will command.
027.034
YUSUFALI: She said: "Kings, when they enter a country, despoil it, and make the noblest of its people its meanest thus do they behave.
PICKTHAL: She said: Lo! kings, when they enter a township, ruin it and make the honour of its people shame. Thus will they do.
SHAKIR: She said: Surely the kings, when they enter a town, ruin it and make the noblest of its people to be low, and thus they (always) do;
027.035
YUSUFALI: "But I am going to send him a present, and (wait) to see with what (answer) return (my) ambassadors."
PICKTHAL: But lo! I am going to send a present unto them, and to see with what (answer) the messengers return.
SHAKIR: And surely I am going to send a present to them, and shall wait to see what (answer) do the messengers bring back.
027.036
YUSUFALI: Now when (the embassy) came to Solomon, he said: "Will ye give me abundance in wealth? But that which Allah has given me is better than that which He has given you! Nay it is ye who rejoice in your gift!
PICKTHAL: So when (the envoy) came unto Solomon, (the King) said: What! Would ye help me with wealth? But that which Allah hath given me is better than that which He hath given you. Nay it is ye (and not I) who exult in your gift.
SHAKIR: So when he came to Sulaiman, he said: What! will you help me with wealth? But what Allah has given me is better than what He has given you. Nay, you are exultant because of your present;
027.037
YUSUFALI: "Go back to them, and be sure we shall come to them with such hosts as they will never be able to meet: We shall expel them from there in disgrace, and they will feel humbled (indeed)."
PICKTHAL: Return unto them. We verily shall come unto them with hosts that they cannot resist, and we shall drive them out from thence with shame, and they will be abased.
SHAKIR: Go back to them, so we will most certainly come to them with hosts which they shall have no power to oppose, and we will most certainly expel them therefrom in abasement, and they shall be in a state of ignominy.
See Part 2:
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Post by iris89 on Jul 26, 2006 14:14:18 GMT -5
Part 2:
027.038
YUSUFALI: He said (to his own men): "Ye chiefs! which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me in submission?"
PICKTHAL: He said: O chiefs! Which of you will bring me her throne before they come unto me, surrendering?
SHAKIR: He said: O chiefs! which of you can bring to me her throne before they come to me in submission?
027.039
YUSUFALI: Said an 'Ifrit, of the Jinns: "I will bring it to thee before thou rise from thy council: indeed I have full strength for the purpose, and may be trusted."
PICKTHAL: A stalwart of the jinn said: I will bring it thee before thou canst rise from thy place. Lo! I verily am strong and trusty for such work.
SHAKIR: One audacious among the jinn said: I will bring it to you before you rise up from your place; and most surely I am strong (and) trusty for it.
027.040
YUSUFALI: Said one who had knowledge of the Book: "I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye!" Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said: "This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !"
PICKTHAL: One with whom was knowledge of the Scripture said: I will bring it thee before thy gaze returneth unto thee. And when he saw it set in his presence, (Solomon) said: This is of the bounty of my Lord, that He may try me whether I give thanks or am ungrateful. Whosoever giveth thanks he only giveth thanks for (the good of) his own soul; and whosoever is ungrateful (is ungrateful only to his own soul's hurt). For lo! my Lord is Absolute in independence, Bountiful.
SHAKIR: One who had the knowledge of the Book said: I will bring it to you in the twinkling of an eye. Then when he saw it settled beside him, he said: This is of the grace of my Lord that He may try me whether I am grateful or ungrateful; and whoever is grateful, he is grateful only for his own soul, and whoever is ungrateful, then surely my Lord is Self-sufficient, Honored.
027.041
YUSUFALI: He said: "Transform her throne out of all recognition by her: let us see whether she is guided (to the truth) or is one of those who receive no guidance."
PICKTHAL: He said: Disguise her throne for her that we may see whether she will go aright or be of those not rightly guided.
SHAKIR: He said: Alter her throne for her, we will see whether she follows the right way or is of those who do not go aright.
027.042
YUSUFALI: So when she arrived, she was asked, "Is this thy throne?" She said, "It was just like this; and knowledge was bestowed on us in advance of this, and we have submitted to Allah (in Islam)."
PICKTHAL: So, when she came, it was said (unto her): Is thy throne like this? She said: (It is) as though it were the very one. And (Solomon said): We were given the knowledge before her and we had surrendered (to Allah).
SHAKIR: So when she came, it was said: Is your throne like this? She said: It is as it were the same, and we were given the knowledge before it, and we were submissive.
027.043
YUSUFALI: And he diverted her from the worship of others besides Allah: for she was (sprung) of a people that had no faith.
PICKTHAL: And (all) that she was wont to worship instead of Allah hindered her, for she came of disbelieving folk.
SHAKIR: And what she worshipped besides Allah prevented her, surely she was of an unbelieving people.
027.044
YUSUFALI: She was asked to enter the lofty Palace: but when she saw it, she thought it was a lake of water, and she (tucked up her skirts), uncovering her legs. He said: "This is but a palace paved smooth with slabs of glass." She said: "O my Lord! I have indeed wronged my soul: I do (now) submit (in Islam), with Solomon, to the Lord of the Worlds."
PICKTHAL: It was said unto her: Enter the hall. And when she saw it she deemed it a pool and bared her legs. (Solomon) said: Lo! it is a hall, made smooth, of glass. She said: My Lord! Lo! I have wronged myself, and I surrender with Solomon unto Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
SHAKIR: It was said to her: Enter the palace; but when she saw it she deemed it to be a great expanse of water, and bared her legs. He said: Surely it is a palace made smooth with glass. She said: My Lord! surely I have been unjust to myself, and I submit with Sulaiman to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
027.045
YUSUFALI: We sent (aforetime), to the Thamud, their brother Salih, saying, "Serve Allah": But behold, they became two factions quarrelling with each other.
PICKTHAL: And We verily sent unto Thamud their brother Salih, saying: Worship Allah. And lo! they (then became two parties quarrelling.
SHAKIR: And certainly We sent to Samood their brother Salih, saying: Serve Allah; and lo! they became two sects quarrelling with each other.
So as we can see, that while some members try to falsely assert that the Hebrews ever had a nation, the distorted Bible knockoff, the Quran, they claim to believe even testifies to the existence of this nation in ancient times.
Of course the distorted Bible knockoff, the Quran, is full of distortions, and here is one example, How can little worm eat away Solomans staff? Was Solomon standing there for months and waited for the little worm to finish until it fell apart? Solomon is amused at the speech of an ant? (27:19) How could Solomon keep his sanity if he heard all the voices of all the insects around him? He must have been drowned in constant chatter. It is high time that all accept the fact that the Quran is nothing but a distorted knockoff of the Bible, and that the Bible truly is the word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael.
MORE EVIDENCE FROM THE QURAN TO THE EXISTANCE OF THE ANCIENT NATION OF THE HEBREWS:
SABA (SABA, SHEBA)
034.012
YUSUFALI: And to Solomon (We made) the Wind (obedient): Its early morning (stride) was a month's (journey), and its evening (stride) was a month's (journey); and We made a Font of molten brass to flow for him; and there were Jinns that worked in front of him, by the leave of his Lord, and if any of them turned aside from our command, We made him taste of the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
PICKTHAL: And unto Solomon (We gave) the wind, whereof the morning course was a month's journey and the evening course a month's journey, and We caused the fount of copper to gush forth for him, and (We gave him) certain of the jinn who worked before him by permission of his Lord. And such of them as deviated from Our command, them We caused to taste the punishment of flaming Fire.
SHAKIR: And (We made) the wind (subservient) to Sulaiman, which made a month's journey in the morning and a month's journey m the evening, and We made a fountain of molten copper to flow out for him, and of the jinn there were those who worked before him by the command of his Lord; and whoever turned aside from Our command from among them, We made him taste of the punishment of burning.
034.013
YUSUFALI: They worked for him as he desired, (making) arches, images, basons as large as reservoirs, and (cooking) cauldrons fixed (in their places): "Work ye, sons of David, with thanks! but few of My servants are grateful!"
PICKTHAL: They made for him what he willed: synagogues and statues, basins like wells and boilers built into the ground. Give thanks, O House of David! Few of My bondmen are thankful.
SHAKIR: They made for him what he pleased of fortresses and images, and bowls (large) as watering-troughs and cooking-pots that will not move from their place; give thanks, O family of Dawood! and very few of My servants are grateful.
034.014
YUSUFALI: Then, when We decreed (Solomon's) death, nothing showed them his death except a little worm of the earth, which kept (slowly) gnawing away at his staff: so when he fell down, the Jinns saw plainly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have tarried in the humiliating Penalty (of their Task).
PICKTHAL: And when We decreed death for him, nothing showed his death to them save a creeping creature of the earth which gnawed away his staff. And when he fell the jinn saw clearly how, if they had known the Unseen, they would not have continued in despised toil.
SHAKIR: But when We decreed death for him, naught showed them his death but a creature of the earth that ate away his staff; and when it fell down, the jinn came to know plainly that if they had known the unseen, they would not have tarried in abasing torment.
And, still more:
AL-ANBIYA (THE PROPHETS)
021.081
YUSUFALI: (It was Our power that made) the violent (unruly) wind flow (tamely) for Solomon, to his order, to the land which We had blessed: for We do know all things.
PICKTHAL: And unto Solomon (We subdued) the wind in its raging. It set by his command toward the land which We had blessed. And of everything We are Aware.
SHAKIR: And (We made subservient) to Sulaiman the wind blowing violent, pursuing its course by his command to the land which We had blessed, and We are knower of ail things.
021.082
YUSUFALI: And of the evil ones, were some who dived for him, and did other work besides; and it was We Who guarded them.
PICKTHAL: And of the evil ones (subdued We unto him) some who dived (for pearls) for him and did other work, and We were warders unto them.
SHAKIR: And of the rebellious people there were those who dived for him and did other work besides that, and We kept guard over them;
FACTS ON KING SOLOMON:
From an encyclopedia, <<" Historical-Israel-Dan-Beersheba-Judea.pngUnited Monarchy under Solomon
Solomon (Latin name) or Shlomo is a figure described in Middle Eastern scriptures as a wise ruler of an empire, living perhaps around 1000 BCE.
The names "Shlomo" and "Solomon" are usually associated with the Biblical account of his life.
His father was named David (Hebrew). In the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) he is also called Jedidiah and described as the third king of the united Kingdom of Israel, prior to the split between the Northern Kingdom of Israel and the Southern Kingdom of Judah. Following the split, the kings of Judah were descended patrilinealy from Solomon.
Solomon was the builder of the first Temple in Jerusalem, also known as Solomon's Temple. He was renowned for his great wisdom, wealth, and power, but also blamed for his later pacifism toward his converted wives in their worship of other gods. He is the subject of many later legends. Some Kabbalah masters claim[citation needed] to be his descendents.
The name Solomon (Shlomo) means "peaceful," or "complete", from the Hebrew Shelomoh. The name given by God to Solomon in the Bible is Jedidiah, meaning "friend of God", (2 Samuel 12:25), and some scholars have conjectured that Solomon is a "king name" taken either when he assumed the throne or upon his death.
Solomon's case is one of the few in the Bible where the name given by God does not stay with the character. Solomon's birth is considered a grace from God, after the death of the previous child between David and Bathsheba.
Succession
Solomon was David's second son by Bathsheba [1], and his declared heir to the throne. Solomon's history is recorded in 1 Kings 1-11 and 2 Chronicles 1-9. He succeeded his father (reigned circa 1011/1010 BCE to 971/970 BCE) on the throne in about 971 or 970 BCE, not 1037 BCE (1 Kings 6:1), according to E. R. Thiele. His father chose him as his successor, passing over the claims of his elder sons, by women other than Bathsheba. His elevation to the throne took place before his father's death, and is hastened on mainly by Nathan and Bathsheba, in consequence of the rebellion of Adonijah.
During his long reign of 40 years the Hebrew monarchy gained its highest splendor. This period has well been called the "Augustan Age" of the Jewish annals. In a single year he collected tribute amounting to 666 talents of gold, according to 1 Kings 10:14.
The first half of his reign was, however, by far the brighter and more prosperous; the latter half was clouded by the idolatries into which he fell, mainly, according to the scribes, from his intermarriages. According to 1 Kings 11:3, he had 700 wives and 300 concubines. As soon as he had settled himself in his kingdom, and arranged the affairs of his extensive empire, he entered into an alliance with Egypt by a marriage with the daughter of the Pharaoh. ...
Islamic view of Solomon
Main article: Islamic view of Solomon
See Similarities between the Bible and the Qur'an
Solomon also appears in the Qur'an, where he is called Sulayman, which is Solomon in Arabic (Sulaiman or Suleiman)(Arabic: ??????). The Qur'an refers to Solomon as the son of David, as a prophet and as a great ruler imparted by God with tremendous wisdom, favor, and special powers just like his father, David. The Quran states that Solomon had under his rule not only people, but also hosts of hidden beings (i.e., jinn). It also states that Solomon was able to understand the language of the birds and ants, and to see some of the hidden glory in the world that was not accessible to common human beings. The Islamic view on Solomon is based entirely on revelation's to Muhammed which comprise part of the Qur'an." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>.
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN KING DAVID AND MUHAMMAD (pbuh):
Let's look at the differences between the two men:
First, a question, Can the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael command one to commit adultery or sin?
The true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael is Holy and so would not give an unholy command. But this is what is wrongly claimed in the Quran with respect the unholy marriage of Muhammad (pbuh) and Zainab the wife of his adopted son.We also looked at the unholy marriage between Muhammed and Zainab the wife of his adopted son.
History documents that once Zainab was tanning leather and Muhammed (pbuh) saw her and desired her for his own. When his adopted son found out that Muhammed (pbuh) wanted his wife, he divorced her per Shara 33:36-40,
AL-AHZAB (THE CLANS, THE COALITION,THE COMBINED FORCES), Sura 33:
033.036
YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.
PICKTHAL: And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, he verily goeth astray in error manifest.
SHAKIR: And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.
033.037
YUSUFALI: Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled.
PICKTHAL: And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour: Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him. So when Zeyd had performed that necessary formality (of divorce) from her, We gave her unto thee in marriage, so that (henceforth) there may be no sin for believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have performed the necessary formality (of release) from them. The commandment of Allah must be fulfilled.
SHAKIR: And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor: Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light, and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him. But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife, so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.
See Part 3:
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Post by iris89 on Jul 26, 2006 14:15:09 GMT -5
Part 3:
033.038
YUSUFALI: There can be no difficulty to the Prophet in what Allah has indicated to him as a duty. It was the practice (approved) of Allah amongst those of old that have passed away. And the command of Allah is a decree determined.
PICKTHAL: There is no reproach for the Prophet in that which Allah maketh his due. That was Allah's way with those who passed away of old - and the commandment of Allah is certain destiny -
SHAKIR: There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute:
033.039
YUSUFALI: (It is the practice of those) who preach the Messages of Allah, and fear Him, and fear none but Allah. And enough is Allah to call (men) to account.
PICKTHAL: Who delivered the messages of Allah and feared Him, and feared none save Allah. Allah keepeth good account.
SHAKIR: Those who deliver the messages of Allah and fear Him, and do not fear any one but Allah; and Allah is sufficient to take account.
033.040
YUSUFALI: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
PICKTHAL: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
SHAKIR: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
As can be seen, the distorted Bible knockoff, the Quran, gave permission to Muhammad (pbuh) to do what was wrong, and definitely would NOT be sanctioned by the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael; thereby, showing the Quran as nothing more than a book written by a strongman who borrowed from the Bible without giving credit.
Now let's look at the case of King David who committed a similar wrong and the reactions of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael as recorded at 2 Samuel 11:27 through 12:1-13, "And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the LORD. 1 And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor. 2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds: 3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter. 4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him. 5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die: 6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity. 7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon. 10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife. 11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun. 13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die." (AV), a real difference between the two men.
LAST, THE ISMAELITES FALSELY DENY THAT THE JEWS OF EUROPE ARE THE HEBREWS, DESCENDENTS OF ISAAC:
The descendents of Ishmael in their wrong doing try to deny that the Jews of Europe are the descendents of Isaac, but let's see what DNA evidence shows.
<<" How can you prove that todays European Jews are real Jews - descendants of the original Jews and heirs to the Land of Israel, and not just converts from the lands in which they lived during the last few centuries?
? "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
- M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000
? In addition to oral tradition and copious historical evidence, the genetic evidence stands firmly behind the common ancestry of both Ashkenazim and Sephardim in the Near East, and against any non-Jewish origin for either of these groups. Below are a collection of scientific journal articles including abstracts available worldwide on Pubmed and Medline.
Jewish and middle eastern non-jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes.
Hammer MF, Redd AJ, Wood ET, Bonner MR, Jarjanazi H, Karafet T, Santachiara-Benerecetti S, Oppenheim A, Jobling MA, Jenkins T, Ostrer H, Bonne-Tamir B
Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721; Department of Genetics, Universita degli Studi di Pavia, Pavia 27100, Italy; Hadassah Medical School, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem 91120, Israel.
[Medline record in process]
Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.
PMID: 10801975, UI: 20300976
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2000 Jun 6;97(12):6769-74
? The common, Near-Eastern origin of Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews supported by Y-chromosome similarity.
Santachiara Benerecetti AS, Semino O, Passarino G, Torroni A, Brthingya R, Fellous M, Modiano G
Dipartimento di Biologia Cellulare, Universita della Calabria, Cosenza, Italy.
About 80 Sephardim, 80 Ashkenazim and 100 Czechoslovaks were examined for the Y-specific RFLPs revealed by the probes p12f2 and p49a,f on TaqI DNA digests. The aim of the study was to investigate the origin of the Ashkenazi gene pool through the analysis of markers which, having an exclusively holoandric transmission, are useful to estimate paternal gene flow. The comparison of the two groups of Jews with each other and with Czechoslovaks (which have been taken as a representative source of foreign Y-chromosomes for Ashkenazim) shows a great similarity between Sephardim and Ashkenazim who are very different from Czechoslovaks. On the other hand both groups of Jews appear to be closely related to Lebanese. A preliminary evaluation suggests that the contribution of foreign males to the Ashkenazi gene pool has been very low (1% or less per generation).
Ann Hum Genet 1993 Jan;57 ( Pt 1):55-64
PMID: 8101437, UI: 93325982" [source - The Peace Encyclopedia]>>.
So it is plain that the Ishmaelites of today that make this false claim are just plain wrong as shown by DNA.
CONCLUSION:
The facts are that the Hebrews are the rightful owners of the land of Palestine, and that anyone else claiming otherwise is just a dishonest as has been shown by the facts in this article.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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