Post by iris89 on Oct 10, 2007 13:13:42 GMT -5
Genesis 1:26 Used as an Unusual False Premise of Three-In-One God:
Some partially quote Genesis 1:26 as an unusual false premise to try and support the false doctrine of the Three-In-One god. Let's look at an example and see their error:
One supporter partially quoted Genesis 1:26 to support this false doctrine,
<<<""Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness..." Gen 1:26">>>.
Now let's look at that scripture in a little more detail and in its entirety,
Genesis 1:26, "And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB).
Interestingly it completely disproves what I believe is your entire premise since it clearly shows a conversation between two heavenly spirit beings; to wit, Almighty God (YHWH) and his only begotten Son, Jesus (Yeshua). Now let's rev forward to Proverbs 8:22-31 to get a clearer picture of this Son, whom his Father used as his master worker,
Proverbs 8:22-31, "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men." (American Standard Version; ASV).
As can be seen, they are two separate and distinct spirit beings, one subservient to the other. This is clearly shown also in Jesus' (Yeshua's), the subservient one's prayer to the superior one, his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) given at John 17:1-26,
John 17:1-26, "These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the son may glorify thee:
2 even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that to all whom thou hast given him, he should give eternal life.
3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
4 I glorified thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do.
5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they know that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are from thee:
8 for the words which thou gavest me I have given unto them; and they received them, and knew of a truth that I came forth from thee, and they believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine:
10 and all things that are mine are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them.
11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I come to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy made full in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou didst send me into the world, even so sent I them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word;
21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.
22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me.
24 Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world knew thee not, but I knew thee; and these knew that thou didst send me;
26 and I made known unto them thy name, and will make it known; that the love wherewith thou lovedst me may be in them, and I in them." (ASV).
Clearly one does not pray to a subservient one but only to a superior one as shown in this prayer, and in fact at Matthew 4:9-10, Jesus (Yeshua) made it clear that we were only to worship his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) as follows:
Matthew 4:9-10, "and he said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (ASV).
And the relative position of each is made clear at 1 Corinthians 15:22-28,
1 Corinthians 15:23-28, "But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.
27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all." (ASV).
Now note, that in verse 27 it clearly says, "He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him." where it makes the point that Jesus (Yeshua) Father, Almighty God (YHWH) put all things except himself under him for a period of time. Only a superior has the power and authority to assign tasks and here clearly Jesus (Yeshua) was receiving a task from his Father, Almighty God (YHWH).
Quite possibly this point was misunderstood because of a failure to correctly understand what the term "god" and "deity" really mean and how they can be assigned to spirit individuals and even humans at different levels, but here is some assistance with regard to understanding.
When discussing the question on whether use of "Deity" for John's use of "theos" within the third clause is proper, might there be something else to consider? de·i·ty noun [-ties pl{ural}.] 1. A god, goddess, or divine person. 2. Divine nature or status; godhead; divinity. - the Deity, God. [<F{rench}. déité <L{atin}. deus, god]. "Funk & Wagnalls New Practical Standard Dictionary of the English Language; Britannica World Language Edition, Compiled Under the Direction of the Editorial Staff of Encyclopaedia Britannica; 'Em-ha-type Method of Pronunciation.'" Funk, Charles Earle (b.1881- d.?), Editor. 2 vols. vol. 1 - A-P. vol. 2 - Q-Z. [source - (New York, New York; Funk & Wagnalls Co., 1955), vol. 2 (braces ours). PE1625 .S712 1955 / 56001830].
- <*> - de*i*ty (de'-te) n....1. A god or goddess. 2. Divinity. 3. Deity. God. ?< Lat{tin}. deus.?. [source - "The American Heritage Dictionary." 3rd Edition. (New York, New York: Dell Publishing, A Division of Bantam Doubleday Dell Publishing Group, Inc.; Houghton Mifflin Company, 1992), p. 227 (braces ours). PE1628 .A623 1992 / 92-851].
- <*> - de*i*ty / de'eitee,...1 a god or goddess. 2 divine status, quality or nature. 3 (the Deity) God. [source - "The Oxford American Dictionary of Current English." (New York, New York: Oxford University Press, 1999), p. 205 (bold theirs). PE1628 .O8617 1999 / 99-39972].
- <*> - de*i¦ty (de'? te) n....1. the state of being a god; divine nature; godhood. 2....[3.] - the Deity God. [source - "Webster's New World Dictionary of American English." 3rd College Edition. Neufeldt, Victoria (b.?-d.?), Editor-in-Chief. Guralnik, David B. (b.1920-d.2000), Editor-in-Chief Emeritus. (New York, New York: Simon & Schuster, Inc., 1994), p. 363. PE1628 .W5633 1993 / 93-2961].
- <*> - de*i*ty (de' i te)...1. a god or goddess. 2. divine character or nature; divinity: Her deity is manifest in her actions. 3. the estate or rank o***od: The king attained deity after his death. 4. the character or nature of the Supreme Being: the deity of Christ. 5. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity. 6. the Deity, God; Supreme Being. [source - "The Random House College Dictionary, Based on the Random House Dictionary of the English Language, the Unabridged Edition." Urdang, Laurance (b.?-d.?), Editor-in-Chief; Flexner, Stuart Berg (b.?-d.?), Managing Editor. (New York, New York: Rand McNally and Company, 1968, 1969, 1972, 1973), p. 350. PE1625 .R29 / 73-175504].
- <*> - Deity (di * ti)...1. the state or rank o***od; godhood; the personality o***od; godship; esp[ecially] with poss[ive] pron[oun]. b. The divine quality, character, or nature of God; Godhood, divinity; the divine nature and attributes, the Godhead. c. The condition or state in which the Divine Being exists. Obs. 2. A divinity, a divine being, a god; one of the gods worshiped by a people or a tribe. b. An object of worship; a thing or person deified. 3. (with capital) A supreme being as creator of the universe; the Deity, the Supreme Being, God. (Especially as a term of National Theology, and without explicit predication of personality.) [source - "The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, Complete Text Reproduced Micrographically." 2 vols. (Oxford, Great Britain: Oxford University Press, 1971), vol. i - a-o, p. 675 (152) (parenthesis theirs). PE1625 .N53 1971 / 72-177361].
- <*> - Although this approach to the subject may seem to some to be a bit too simplistic, does anyone else see what I am seeing? Please take note that, although "Deity" has the meaning of "God" (with capitals for both), "deity" means "a god." Therefore, when it is that Bowman (or, for that matter, any others) attempt to use "Deity" for John's second use of "theos," they are, in fact, just substituting another term which, when spelled with a capital "D", means the same thing as "God." If, on the other hand, they wish to be utilizing a term to somehow convey something different than this, they must either use "deity" or "a deity" instead. Whereas, each of these dictionaries give "a god" as the first meaning to use of the term (with all but one spelling it in all lower case), it should be noted that it is not untill the later definitions do we find its use (when capitalized) to mean "God", 'the Supreme being.' Furthermore, there is this: "[The Biblical use of the term] 'God' does not connote a 'divine essence' that can be shared by a number of beings, even though there may be a number of beings who are called 'god.' In this sense, theos functions slightly differently than does the English term 'deity.' Although we use 'deity' to refer both to God ("the Deity") and to a property (as in the "deity of Christ"), 'god' does not refer to a characteristic or property the possession of which renders one 'divine.' Rather, 'God' in biblical texts and Jewish thought either refers to the one and only God or, when used of a human figure, relates that figure to God by the exercise of some divine prerogative that is further exercised by God's authority." [source - Taken from: Thompson, Marianne Meye (b.?-d.?), Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. "The God of the Gospel of John." (Grand Rapids, Michigan: W.B. Eerdmans, c2001), Chapter 1, "The Meaning of 'God,'" p. 46. BT102 .T525 2001 / 2001-040379].
So as can readily be seen, there are different things called "god" and "deity" and levels to be considered that one should always bare in mind when reading and studying, and therefore, conclusions should NOT be jumped to as many do.
To learn more, go to, religioustruths.proboards59.com/
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Some partially quote Genesis 1:26 as an unusual false premise to try and support the false doctrine of the Three-In-One god. Let's look at an example and see their error:
One supporter partially quoted Genesis 1:26 to support this false doctrine,
<<<""Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness..." Gen 1:26">>>.
Now let's look at that scripture in a little more detail and in its entirety,
Genesis 1:26, "And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB).
Interestingly it completely disproves what I believe is your entire premise since it clearly shows a conversation between two heavenly spirit beings; to wit, Almighty God (YHWH) and his only begotten Son, Jesus (Yeshua). Now let's rev forward to Proverbs 8:22-31 to get a clearer picture of this Son, whom his Father used as his master worker,
Proverbs 8:22-31, "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men." (American Standard Version; ASV).
As can be seen, they are two separate and distinct spirit beings, one subservient to the other. This is clearly shown also in Jesus' (Yeshua's), the subservient one's prayer to the superior one, his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) given at John 17:1-26,
John 17:1-26, "These things spake Jesus; and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that the son may glorify thee:
2 even as thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that to all whom thou hast given him, he should give eternal life.
3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.
4 I glorified thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do.
5 And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they know that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are from thee:
8 for the words which thou gavest me I have given unto them; and they received them, and knew of a truth that I came forth from thee, and they believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me; for they are thine:
10 and all things that are mine are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them.
11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name which thou hast given me: and I guarded them, and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I come to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy made full in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou didst send me into the world, even so sent I them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word;
21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.
22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me.
24 Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world knew thee not, but I knew thee; and these knew that thou didst send me;
26 and I made known unto them thy name, and will make it known; that the love wherewith thou lovedst me may be in them, and I in them." (ASV).
Clearly one does not pray to a subservient one but only to a superior one as shown in this prayer, and in fact at Matthew 4:9-10, Jesus (Yeshua) made it clear that we were only to worship his Father, Almighty God (YHWH) as follows:
Matthew 4:9-10, "and he said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." (ASV).
And the relative position of each is made clear at 1 Corinthians 15:22-28,
1 Corinthians 15:23-28, "But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.
27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all." (ASV).
Now note, that in verse 27 it clearly says, "He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him." where it makes the point that Jesus (Yeshua) Father, Almighty God (YHWH) put all things except himself under him for a period of time. Only a superior has the power and authority to assign tasks and here clearly Jesus (Yeshua) was receiving a task from his Father, Almighty God (YHWH).
Quite possibly this point was misunderstood because of a failure to correctly understand what the term "god" and "deity" really mean and how they can be assigned to spirit individuals and even humans at different levels, but here is some assistance with regard to understanding.
When discussing the question on whether use of "Deity" for John's use of "theos" within the third clause is proper, might there be something else to consider? de·i·ty noun [-ties pl{ural}.] 1. A god, goddess, or divine person. 2. Divine nature or status; godhead; divinity. - the Deity, God. [<F{rench}. déité <L{atin}. deus, god]. "Funk & Wagnalls New Practical Standard Dictionary of the English Language; Britannica World Language Edition, Compiled Under the Direction of the Editorial Staff of Encyclopaedia Britannica; 'Em-ha-type Method of Pronunciation.'" Funk, Charles Earle (b.1881- d.?), Editor. 2 vols. vol. 1 - A-P. vol. 2 - Q-Z. [source - (New York, New York; Funk & Wagnalls Co., 1955), vol. 2 (braces ours). PE1625 .S712 1955 / 56001830].
- <*> - de*i*ty (de'-te) n....1. A god or goddess. 2. Divinity. 3. Deity. God. ?< Lat{tin}. deus.?. [source - "The American Heritage Dictionary." 3rd Edition. (New York, New York: Dell Publishing, A Division of Bantam Doubleday Dell Publishing Group, Inc.; Houghton Mifflin Company, 1992), p. 227 (braces ours). PE1628 .A623 1992 / 92-851].
- <*> - de*i*ty / de'eitee,...1 a god or goddess. 2 divine status, quality or nature. 3 (the Deity) God. [source - "The Oxford American Dictionary of Current English." (New York, New York: Oxford University Press, 1999), p. 205 (bold theirs). PE1628 .O8617 1999 / 99-39972].
- <*> - de*i¦ty (de'? te) n....1. the state of being a god; divine nature; godhood. 2....[3.] - the Deity God. [source - "Webster's New World Dictionary of American English." 3rd College Edition. Neufeldt, Victoria (b.?-d.?), Editor-in-Chief. Guralnik, David B. (b.1920-d.2000), Editor-in-Chief Emeritus. (New York, New York: Simon & Schuster, Inc., 1994), p. 363. PE1628 .W5633 1993 / 93-2961].
- <*> - de*i*ty (de' i te)...1. a god or goddess. 2. divine character or nature; divinity: Her deity is manifest in her actions. 3. the estate or rank o***od: The king attained deity after his death. 4. the character or nature of the Supreme Being: the deity of Christ. 5. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity. 6. the Deity, God; Supreme Being. [source - "The Random House College Dictionary, Based on the Random House Dictionary of the English Language, the Unabridged Edition." Urdang, Laurance (b.?-d.?), Editor-in-Chief; Flexner, Stuart Berg (b.?-d.?), Managing Editor. (New York, New York: Rand McNally and Company, 1968, 1969, 1972, 1973), p. 350. PE1625 .R29 / 73-175504].
- <*> - Deity (di * ti)...1. the state or rank o***od; godhood; the personality o***od; godship; esp[ecially] with poss[ive] pron[oun]. b. The divine quality, character, or nature of God; Godhood, divinity; the divine nature and attributes, the Godhead. c. The condition or state in which the Divine Being exists. Obs. 2. A divinity, a divine being, a god; one of the gods worshiped by a people or a tribe. b. An object of worship; a thing or person deified. 3. (with capital) A supreme being as creator of the universe; the Deity, the Supreme Being, God. (Especially as a term of National Theology, and without explicit predication of personality.) [source - "The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, Complete Text Reproduced Micrographically." 2 vols. (Oxford, Great Britain: Oxford University Press, 1971), vol. i - a-o, p. 675 (152) (parenthesis theirs). PE1625 .N53 1971 / 72-177361].
- <*> - Although this approach to the subject may seem to some to be a bit too simplistic, does anyone else see what I am seeing? Please take note that, although "Deity" has the meaning of "God" (with capitals for both), "deity" means "a god." Therefore, when it is that Bowman (or, for that matter, any others) attempt to use "Deity" for John's second use of "theos," they are, in fact, just substituting another term which, when spelled with a capital "D", means the same thing as "God." If, on the other hand, they wish to be utilizing a term to somehow convey something different than this, they must either use "deity" or "a deity" instead. Whereas, each of these dictionaries give "a god" as the first meaning to use of the term (with all but one spelling it in all lower case), it should be noted that it is not untill the later definitions do we find its use (when capitalized) to mean "God", 'the Supreme being.' Furthermore, there is this: "[The Biblical use of the term] 'God' does not connote a 'divine essence' that can be shared by a number of beings, even though there may be a number of beings who are called 'god.' In this sense, theos functions slightly differently than does the English term 'deity.' Although we use 'deity' to refer both to God ("the Deity") and to a property (as in the "deity of Christ"), 'god' does not refer to a characteristic or property the possession of which renders one 'divine.' Rather, 'God' in biblical texts and Jewish thought either refers to the one and only God or, when used of a human figure, relates that figure to God by the exercise of some divine prerogative that is further exercised by God's authority." [source - Taken from: Thompson, Marianne Meye (b.?-d.?), Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. "The God of the Gospel of John." (Grand Rapids, Michigan: W.B. Eerdmans, c2001), Chapter 1, "The Meaning of 'God,'" p. 46. BT102 .T525 2001 / 2001-040379].
So as can readily be seen, there are different things called "god" and "deity" and levels to be considered that one should always bare in mind when reading and studying, and therefore, conclusions should NOT be jumped to as many do.
To learn more, go to, religioustruths.proboards59.com/
Your Friend in Christ Iris89