Post by iris89 on Oct 27, 2007 19:54:57 GMT -5
The Virgin Mary Never Remained a Virgin:
Some maintain that the Virgin Mary remained ever virgin, but that is NOT true. Here is some proof that Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) had fleshly half-brothers and that “blows your false tale of ever virginity of the Virgin Mary” right out of the window. This if from a historian who lived at the same time as Jesus did, i.e., his contemporary and not some so called Early Church Father a group that had many divisions among themselves and quickly left the true teachings of the Apostles due to their own teachings and heresies. No wonder, when the apostles were here, they had to constantly write letters admonishing congregations to faithfully remain in the teachings of Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves).
Here is what a contemporary historian of the times, Flavius Josephus, has to say concerning Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) and his brother James:
Concerning Albinus Under Whose Procuratorship James Was Slain; As Also What Edifices Were Built By Agrippa.
1. And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on
the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, (23) who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and
Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against
them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they
disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some
of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. (24) Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the
high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of d**neus, high priest. [source - Chapter 9 (first Part), The Antiquities of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus as Translated by William Whiston]
In addition archaeological evidence has been found proving James was Jesus’ half-brother:
(AP) - A burial box that was recently discovered in Israel and dates to the first century could be the oldest archaeological link to Jesus Christ, according to a French scholar whose findings were published Monday. An inscription in the Aramaic language — "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" — appears on an empty ossuary, a limestone burial box for bones. Andre Lemaire said it's "very probable" the writing refers to Jesus of Nazareth. He dates the ossuary to A.D. 63, just three decades after the crucifixion.
The first century Jewish historian Josephus recorded that "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, James by name," was stoned to death as a Jewish heretic in A.D. 62. If his bones were placed in an ossuary the inscription would have occurred the following year, around A.D. 63.
Until now, the oldest surviving artifact that mentions Jesus is a fragment of chapter 18 in John's Gospel from a manuscript dated around A.D. 125. It was discovered in Egypt in 1920.
There are numerous surviving manuscripts of New Testament portions from later in that century. Jesus was mentioned by three pagan authors in Rome in the early second century and by Josephus in the late first century.
Lemaire, who was raised Roman Catholic, said his faith did not affect his judgment, since he studies inscriptions only "as a historian — that is, comparing them critically with other sources."
news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=science&cat=anthropology_and_archaeology
www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/index.html
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1021_021021_christianrelicbox.html
www.csmonitor.com/search_content/1022/p01s04-usgn.html
First, it would add to the scant extrabiblical evidence of Jesus' existence – though few today doubt such a man trod the Earth.
Second, it would renew a theologically charged debate about James's relationship to Jesus. The traditional Roman Catholic view is that Jesus is the only son of Mary. If Mary was always a virgin, the argument goes, then James must actually be a cousin or half-brother or step-brother. The ossuary may be "the nail in the coffin of the 'cousin' argument," says John Meier, a New Testament professor at Notre Dame University. [source - Christian Science Monitor]
One person expressed the following opinion which contains a lot of common sense, “Well, maybe, but in my humble opinion, when Christ's groupies told him, "Yo Yo your mom and brothers and sisters are here" Christ asked "Who are my mother and brothers and Sisters?" and then explained that all who believed in Him were his brothers and sisters, but clearly the groupies thought Mary and the people she brought with her were his mother and brothers and sisters. I think this was part of the NEW DEAL Christ was teaching us, that once we abide in Christ we become brothers and sisters in Him. I'm kind of thinking, though don't really know for sure but am thinking before it was time for Christ to start teaching He was pretty much just Jesus the carpenter, and thought of as Joseph and Mary's son.” Based on, “46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!” (Matthew 12:46-49 AV), “ Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” (Matthew 13:55 AV), and “ Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.” (Mark 6:3 AV)
Also the following argument used by some does not hold water as another individual pointed out:
For when the angel revealed to him that Mary was truly the spouse of the Holy Spirit, Joseph could take Mary, his betrothed, into his house as a wife, but he could never have intercourse with her because according to the Law she was forbidden to him for all time. >
Where does it say that Mary was the spouse of the Holy Spirit.
The Scripture does say "Joseph thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee thy WIFE, for what is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit .had bidden him and took unto him his WIFE and knew her not until she had brought forth her first-born son;" Matthew 1:20 - 25.
From Genesis we are told that a man is to leave and cleve unto his WIFE and they shall become ONE FLESH. Sexual intimacy is a requirement of being married. In fact Paul tells us that for a man to have sex with a harlot becomes one flesh with her, i.e., "married".
In fact in the OT if a man RAPED a virgin girl who was not engaged to another, he had to consider her his wife and provide for her.
It is hard to understand why many think would think that Mary is any less of a person in God's eyes if she had children by Joseph after the birth of Christ.
In fact the scriptures clearly say, “ And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” (Matthew 1:25 - Authorized King James Bible; AV) .
Also, Many have tried to obfuscate the issue of whether the Virgin Mary remained ever a virgin with confusing genealogies, claims of ambiguity of words, etc., but the simple truth is the contents carry the meaning of words in most languages and that is true in this case also. The following scriptures in their contents make it clear that she had other children who were the half brothers and half sisters of Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves), let’s examine a few that make this absolutely clear from the context:
“Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.” (Matthew 13:52-57, AV) leaves no doubt as to the relationship.
“And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.” (Mark 6:3, AV)
“ But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.” (Galatians 1:19, AV)
The context of these scriptures make it clear beyond doubt that he had half brothers and half sisters that were children of Mary his mother; therefore, she is proven not to have remained a virgin. Also, there is not a single scripture that says she remained a virgin.
To learn more, go to, religioustruths.proboards59.com/
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Some maintain that the Virgin Mary remained ever virgin, but that is NOT true. Here is some proof that Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) had fleshly half-brothers and that “blows your false tale of ever virginity of the Virgin Mary” right out of the window. This if from a historian who lived at the same time as Jesus did, i.e., his contemporary and not some so called Early Church Father a group that had many divisions among themselves and quickly left the true teachings of the Apostles due to their own teachings and heresies. No wonder, when the apostles were here, they had to constantly write letters admonishing congregations to faithfully remain in the teachings of Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves).
Here is what a contemporary historian of the times, Flavius Josephus, has to say concerning Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves) and his brother James:
Concerning Albinus Under Whose Procuratorship James Was Slain; As Also What Edifices Were Built By Agrippa.
1. And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on
the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, (23) who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and
Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against
them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they
disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some
of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. (24) Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the
high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of d**neus, high priest. [source - Chapter 9 (first Part), The Antiquities of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus as Translated by William Whiston]
In addition archaeological evidence has been found proving James was Jesus’ half-brother:
(AP) - A burial box that was recently discovered in Israel and dates to the first century could be the oldest archaeological link to Jesus Christ, according to a French scholar whose findings were published Monday. An inscription in the Aramaic language — "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" — appears on an empty ossuary, a limestone burial box for bones. Andre Lemaire said it's "very probable" the writing refers to Jesus of Nazareth. He dates the ossuary to A.D. 63, just three decades after the crucifixion.
The first century Jewish historian Josephus recorded that "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, James by name," was stoned to death as a Jewish heretic in A.D. 62. If his bones were placed in an ossuary the inscription would have occurred the following year, around A.D. 63.
Until now, the oldest surviving artifact that mentions Jesus is a fragment of chapter 18 in John's Gospel from a manuscript dated around A.D. 125. It was discovered in Egypt in 1920.
There are numerous surviving manuscripts of New Testament portions from later in that century. Jesus was mentioned by three pagan authors in Rome in the early second century and by Josephus in the late first century.
Lemaire, who was raised Roman Catholic, said his faith did not affect his judgment, since he studies inscriptions only "as a historian — that is, comparing them critically with other sources."
news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=science&cat=anthropology_and_archaeology
www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/index.html
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1021_021021_christianrelicbox.html
www.csmonitor.com/search_content/1022/p01s04-usgn.html
First, it would add to the scant extrabiblical evidence of Jesus' existence – though few today doubt such a man trod the Earth.
Second, it would renew a theologically charged debate about James's relationship to Jesus. The traditional Roman Catholic view is that Jesus is the only son of Mary. If Mary was always a virgin, the argument goes, then James must actually be a cousin or half-brother or step-brother. The ossuary may be "the nail in the coffin of the 'cousin' argument," says John Meier, a New Testament professor at Notre Dame University. [source - Christian Science Monitor]
One person expressed the following opinion which contains a lot of common sense, “Well, maybe, but in my humble opinion, when Christ's groupies told him, "Yo Yo your mom and brothers and sisters are here" Christ asked "Who are my mother and brothers and Sisters?" and then explained that all who believed in Him were his brothers and sisters, but clearly the groupies thought Mary and the people she brought with her were his mother and brothers and sisters. I think this was part of the NEW DEAL Christ was teaching us, that once we abide in Christ we become brothers and sisters in Him. I'm kind of thinking, though don't really know for sure but am thinking before it was time for Christ to start teaching He was pretty much just Jesus the carpenter, and thought of as Joseph and Mary's son.” Based on, “46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!” (Matthew 12:46-49 AV), “ Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” (Matthew 13:55 AV), and “ Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.” (Mark 6:3 AV)
Also the following argument used by some does not hold water as another individual pointed out:
For when the angel revealed to him that Mary was truly the spouse of the Holy Spirit, Joseph could take Mary, his betrothed, into his house as a wife, but he could never have intercourse with her because according to the Law she was forbidden to him for all time. >
Where does it say that Mary was the spouse of the Holy Spirit.
The Scripture does say "Joseph thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee thy WIFE, for what is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit .had bidden him and took unto him his WIFE and knew her not until she had brought forth her first-born son;" Matthew 1:20 - 25.
From Genesis we are told that a man is to leave and cleve unto his WIFE and they shall become ONE FLESH. Sexual intimacy is a requirement of being married. In fact Paul tells us that for a man to have sex with a harlot becomes one flesh with her, i.e., "married".
In fact in the OT if a man RAPED a virgin girl who was not engaged to another, he had to consider her his wife and provide for her.
It is hard to understand why many think would think that Mary is any less of a person in God's eyes if she had children by Joseph after the birth of Christ.
In fact the scriptures clearly say, “ And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” (Matthew 1:25 - Authorized King James Bible; AV) .
Also, Many have tried to obfuscate the issue of whether the Virgin Mary remained ever a virgin with confusing genealogies, claims of ambiguity of words, etc., but the simple truth is the contents carry the meaning of words in most languages and that is true in this case also. The following scriptures in their contents make it clear that she had other children who were the half brothers and half sisters of Jesus (Jeshua or YHWH saves), let’s examine a few that make this absolutely clear from the context:
“Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
53 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.” (Matthew 13:52-57, AV) leaves no doubt as to the relationship.
“And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.” (Mark 6:3, AV)
“ But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.” (Galatians 1:19, AV)
The context of these scriptures make it clear beyond doubt that he had half brothers and half sisters that were children of Mary his mother; therefore, she is proven not to have remained a virgin. Also, there is not a single scripture that says she remained a virgin.
To learn more, go to, religioustruths.proboards59.com/
Your Friend in Christ Iris89