Perfect Love Requires Perfect Justice:

[iris89]

Perfect Love Requires Perfect Justice:

INTRODUCTION:

Some can not see the connection between love and justice, but Karen Lebacqz in her book, "Six Theories of Justice," published in 1986, said, "Indeed, perfect justice would be love. But since love cannot be fully ... Love requires justice for the complex realities of the sinful social world. ..." Yes, Almighty God (YHWH) believes in love, but he also believes in perfect justice. This fact has been clearly shown in the past with the judgment flood of Noah's day, sent to punish an ungodly world recorded in Genesis 6:4-13,

"The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown. 5 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah. 9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, and perfect in his generations: Noah walked with God.
10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. 11 And the earth was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God saw the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." (American Standard Version; ASV).

It would be unjust for a loving God not to pass judgment on the ungodly as it would not be showing love to let people become ever more evil and inflict injury on their neighbors who are just; therefore, he must exercise perfect justice in order to show perfect love. Righteous ones have a right to expect that someday they will love in a world free from crime, violence, and the threat of war; and this is indeed promised at Isaiah 2:4, "And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." (ASV). In fact, Almighty God (YHWH) Son, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ taught us to pray for such at Matthew 6:9-10, "After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth." (ASV).

But many do not recognize this simple reality or truth and forget John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV). They are the followers of false god(s) and egotistical self-centered worldly philosophers. They show adoration of these false gods and worldly philosophers and prefer what they say over what the Creator of all there is, Almighty God (YHWH), says.

One of these put forth the sayings of one philosopher as gospel truth and replied showing what the worldly philosopher said was nothing but written dung as follows:

<<<"[[Item of worldly philosopher quoted by one showing him adoration]]"The belief that one's faith is the only true religion too often leads to a disturbing level of intolerance, and this intolerance includes the assumption that nonbelievers cannot be as moral as believers.
[source - Michael Shermer, The Science of Good and Evil, Chapter 8, Rise Above: Tolerance, Freedom, and the Prospects for Humanity, p. 233]

Not only is there no evidence that a lack of religiosity leads to less moral behavior, a number of studies actually support the opposite conclusion.
--Ibid, p. 235"

[[My Answer]]" Michael Shermer hypothesis is both correct and incorrect as it does NOT universally hold, but is only accurate as applied to individuals who accept a belief because it is the belief of their family and/or of their friends and/or because it fits their fancy such as your belief in egotistical worldly philosophers or in those believing in false beliefs. It does NOT apply to those who have done extensive research without preconceived hypothesis of what the results will be and actually find the genuine (true) followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ as I did; to wit, in a scientific manner by an extensive process of elimination over many years. The last part of the quote of his writing clearly shows that his hypothesis is of only limited application and is not universally applicable since reality is that genuine (true) followers of Christ continually strive to bring their lives in harmony with the thinking of Christ; this is the case that shows positively that Michael Shermer's hypothesis in anything but universal in its application.

This fact of only limited application of his hypothesis is clearly shown by the examples he gives in his book as follows,

[[Second item of worldly philosopher quoted by one showing him adoration]] "Absolute morality leads logically to absolute intolerance. Once it is determined that one has the absolute and final answers to moral questons, why be tolerant of those who refuse to accept the Truth? Religiously based moral systems apply this system in spades. From the medieval Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition to the Holocaust and Bosnia, history is rife with examples of intolerance. In the name of God, religious people have sanctioned slavery, anti-Semitism, racism, homophobia, torture, genocide, ethnic cleansing, and war. In the name of their religion, people have burned women accused of witchcraft. The events of September 11, 2001, are a potent example of religious extremism gone political.
--bid, pp. 237-8"

[[My Answer]]" Genuine (true) followers of Christ had no part in any of the items cited, but remained neutral in all of them and/or were victims of them. Genuine (true) followers of Christ instead applied his words at Matthew 5:43-48 to their lives and acted accordingly, "Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy: 44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you; 45 that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust. 46 For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same? 48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (American Standard Version; ASV).

Also, they pay heed to 1 Corinthians 6:15-20, "Know ye not that your bodies are members of Christ? shall I then take away the members of Christ, and make them members of a harlot? God forbid. 16 Or know ye not that he that is joined to a harlot is one body? for, The twain, saith he, shall become one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 Or know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own; 20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body." (ASV), and Romans 1:19-29, "because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. 28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers," (ASV).

Which are all things that egotistical worldly philosophers such as Michael Shermer and his ilk and their followers pay no attention to NOR do they try and bring their lives in harmony with. Now, I am not trying to say that the genuine (true) followers of Christ are perfect since they are not, but I am saying they are striving to bring their lives into harmony with the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible. Remember, even the Apostle Peter backslide a little and denied Christ three times, but later he was very sorry for this and brought his life back into harmony with the thinking of Christ.">>>.

Individuals putting forth adoration of arrogant worldly philosophers, and false god(s), are individuals under the control of the god of this system, per 2 Corinthians 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB), such as Robert Ingersoll. These philosophers are enthralled with their own belief in worship of self and offer no assistance or hope for others.

As the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, says at Matthew 7:15-16, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (The New American Bible; NAB).

WORLDLY WISE DO NOT COMPREHEND THE MEANING OF SIMPLE WORDS:

So called worldly wise do not comprehend the meaning of simple words, but comprehend the meaning of esoteric words and this is the case here. As an example, The one making these comments and quotes is an engineer who has no difficulty understanding things such as 'Hookian Behaviour,' Young's Modulas (Modulas of elasticity), Yield point, safety factor, etc., but does not understand what intolerance, judgment, genocide (ethnic cleansing), etc. are as clearly he fails to get the sense of spiritual things, i.e., that he is clearly out of his field of expertise.

He does not comprehend the difference between judgment and ethnic cleansing (genocide). As is well known, the flood of Noah's day was an act of divine judgment as were many others recorded in the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

For example, he is apparently unaware or does not comprehend Luke 21:25-26, "And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows; 26 men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken." (ASV) or Matthew 24:7-8, "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places. 8 But all these things are the beginning of travail." (ASV).

History has shown that when Almighty God (YHWH) pronounced judgment it was revealed in advance along with its reason. In some cases Almighty God (YHWH) brought it by direct angelic action, and at other times he brought judgment by using his, then, chosen nation to execute it against the ungodly, and at still other times he used worldly powers to execute his judgment degrees..

Sodom and Gomorrah was an example of his use of an angel to execute judgment as was the flood of Noah's day. Using others to execute his judgment is shown by Almighty God (YHWH) giving Abraham victory over those who had kidnapped his nephew Lot per Genesis 14: 12-20, "And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed. 13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew: now he dwelt by the oaks of Mamre, the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner; and these were confederate with Abram. 14 And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he led forth his trained men, born in his house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued as far as Dan. 15 And he divided himself against them by night, he and his servants, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. 16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought back his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people. 17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him, after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer and the kings that were with him, at the vale of Shaveh (the same is the King's Vale). 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was priest of God Most High. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 and blessed be God Most High, who hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him a tenth of all." (ASV)

For example, God specifically raised up Cyrus the Persian to defeat Babylonia and send some Jews back to rebuild Jerusalem per 2 Chronicles 36:22-23, "Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of Jehovah by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, Jehovah stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, 23 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath Jehovah, the God of heaven, given me; and he hath charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whosoever there is among you of all his people, Jehovah his God be with him, and let him go up." (ASV), and Isaiah 44:28, "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure, even saying of Jerusalem, She shall be built; and of the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid." (ASV)

Instead of recognizing this reality; to wit, judgment by Almighty God (YHWH) and its execution, this one giving adoration egotistical worldly philosophers wrongly accused me of,

<<<"You are talking in circles again.">>>.

Why? Simple he failed to distinguish between an execution of judgment and intolerance, and he also failed to distinguish between an execution of judgment on the ungodly and ethnic cleansing (genocide). We shall now consider what the meaning of judgment is.

See Part Two

[iris89]

Part Two:
WHAT IS JUDGMENT?

Many who show adoration to egotistical worldly philosophers and false god(s) do not comprehend what judgment is and why Almighty God (YHWH) must pass it to show perfect love.

Webster's dictionary defines judgment as follows:

<<<" Judgment (Page: 804)
Judg"ment (?), n. [OE. jugement, F. jugement, LL. judicamentum, fr. L. judicare. See Judge, v. i.]
1. The act of judging; the operation of the mind, involving comparison and discrimination, by which a knowledge of the values and relations of thins, whether of moral qualities, intellectual concepts, logical propositions, or material facts, is obtained; as, by careful judgment he avoided the peril; by a series of wrong judgments he forfeited confidence.
I oughte deme, of skilful jugement, That in the salte sea my wife is deed. Chaucer. ...

4. The act of determining, as in courts of law, what is conformable to law and justice; also, the determination, decision, or sentence of a court, or of a judge; the mandate or sentence of God as the judge of all.
In judgments between rich and poor, consider not what the poor man needs, but what is his own. Jer. Taylor. ...

6. A calamity regarded as sent by God, by way of recompense for wrong committed; a providential punishment. Judgments are prepared for scorners." Prov. xix. 29. This judgment of the heavens that makes us tremble." Shak.

7. (Theol.) The final award; the last sentence. &hand; Judgment, abridgment, acknowledgment, and lodgment are in England sometimes written, judgement, abridgement, acknowledgement, and lodgement. &hand; Judgment is used adjectively in many self-explaining combinations; as, judgment hour; judgment throne. Judgment day (Theol.), the last day, or period when final judgment will be pronounced on the subjects of God's moral government. -- Judgment debt (Law), a debt secured to the creditor by a judge's order. -- Judgment hall, a hall where courts are held. -- Judgment seat, the seat or bench on which judges sit in court; hence, a court; a tribunal. We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." Rom. xiv. 10. -- Judgment summons (Law), a proceeding by a judgment creditor against a judgment debtor upon an unsatisfied judgment. Arrest of judgment. (Law) See under Arrest, n. -- Judgment of God, a term formerly applied to extraordinary trials of secret crimes, as by arms and single combat, by ordeal, etc.; it being imagined that God would work miracles to vindicate innocence. See under Ordeal. Syn. -- Discernment; decision; determination; award; estimate; criticism; taste; discrimination; penetration; sagacity; intelligence; understanding. See Taste." [source - Webster's Revised Unabridged, 1913 Edition]>>>.

And,

<<<" JUDGMENT, practice. The decision or sentence of the law, given by a court of justice or other competent tribunal, as the result of proceedings instituted therein, for the redress of an injury.

2. The language of judgments, therefore, is not that "it is decreed," or "resolved," by the court; but "it is considered," (consideratum est per curiam) that the plaintiff recover his debt, damages, or possession, as the case may require, or that the defendant do go without day. This implies that the judgment is not so much the decision of the court, as the sentence of the law pronounced and decreed by the court, after due deliberation and inquiry.

3. To be valid, a judicial judgment must be given by a competent judge or court, [[The Supreme being of the universe is definitely also the most competent one.]]at a time and place appointed by law, and in the form it requires. A judgment would be null, if the judge had not jurisdiction of the matter; or, having such jurisdiction, he exercised it when there was no court held, or but of his district; or if be rendered a judgment before the cause was prepared for a hearing. ...

22. A final judgment is one which puts an end to the suit. [[Almighty God (YHWH) judgments against the ungodly and their execution are final.]] ...
[source - A Law Dictionary, Adapted to the Constitution and Laws of the United States. By John Bouvier. Published 1856.]>>>.

So as can be seen a judgment is the judging of the wrong doer and execution of the judgment is the exercise of the penalty for that wrong. It is not intolerance, ethnic cleansing, genocide, but the execution of judgment.

UNBELIEVERS IN THE TRUE GOD DO NOT COMPREHEND WHAT INTOLERANCE IS:

Unbelievers is the true God do not get the real meaning of intolerance, but wrongly try to apply it to the execution of judgments of Almighty God (YHWH), the Supreme being of the universe. Now let's consider just what intolerance is:

<<<" Intolerance is the lack of ability or willingness to tolerate something.

* In pressed through angry argumentation, looking down at people because of their characteristics or viewpoints, negatively portraying something due the contrast with one's own beliefs, etc. On a more extreme level, it can lead to violence - in its most severe form, genocide. Possibly the most infamous example in Western culture is the Holocaust. Colonialism was based, in part, on a lack of tolerance of cultures different than that of the mother country.

* There is debate as to where a government can use its force to prevent what it defines as hate speech. For example, the First Amendment to the United States Constitution allows such expression of intolerance without criminal action. In some other countries people can be prosecuted for such speech. This is a question of how much intolerance the government should tolerate, and how it decides what constitutes the expression of hate.

As the debate as to what to do about other people's intolerance continues, what is often ignored is how to recognize and deal with one's own.
[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>>.

Now let's look at what genocide (ethnic cleaning) is.

UNBELIEVERS IN THE TRUE GOD DO NOT COMPREHEND WHAT GENOCIDE (ETHNIC CLEANING) IS:

Unbelievers is the true God do not get the real meaning of 'genocide' (ethnic clearning), but wrongly try to apply it to the execution of judgments of Almighty God (YHWH), the Supreme being of the universe. Now let's consider just what 'genocide' (ethnic clearning), is:

<<<"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, racial, religious or national group.
While precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Article 2 of this defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[1] ...

It is commonly accepted that, at least since World War II, genocide has been illegal under customary international law as a peremptory norm, as well as under conventional international law. Acts of genocide are generally difficult to establish for prosecution, because a chain of accountability must be established. International criminal courts and tribunals function primarily because the states involved are incapable or unwilling to prosecute crimes of this magnitude themselves." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>>.

It is NOT the receiving of punishment for wrong doing. Punishment by definition is,

<<<"PUNISHMENT -- NOUN: 1a. The act or an instance of punishing. b. The condition of being punished. 2. A penalty imposed for wrongdoing: "The severity of the punishment must . . . be in keeping with the kind of obligation which has been violated" (Simone Weil). [[Almighty God (YHWH) as the Supreme being in the universe has the absolute right to have punishment carried out.]]
[source - The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.].

Yet it is quite strange that some learned ones can easily understand/comprehend esoteric terms, but can NOT properly apply or understand everyday terms. One reason may be they have not made a sufficiently in-depth search for the genuine (true) dogma of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ with a pure motive. To show what I mean by an in-depth search with a pure motive, I shall, in brief, review my own search as a young girl.

MY OWN PURE SEARCH FOR TRUTH IN RELIGION AS A YOUNG GIRL:

When I was a very young girl in my native village, I never knew there were individuals so absurd as to believe in and pay adoration to worldly philosophers instead of to Almighty God (YHWH). I did know there were false god(s) and that some people even considered the ruler of their nation was a god such as the ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, etc., but I never imagine there were individuals so blind to reality, the truth per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) that they would pay adoration to egotistical worldly philosophers and quote their absurd nonsense as if they considered it sacred scripture. As one individual, a cult member, I usually strongly disagree with brought out by posting the following scripture, Jeremiah 2:19, "Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and a bitter, that thou hast forsaken Jehovah thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts." (American Standard Version; ASV); ti wit, These individuals that pay adoration to worldly philosophers and treat their egotistical self-centered writings were for me as a young girl just unimaginable. I well knew of false god(s) such as the mythical god, the old middle eastern celestial Moon god, "Allah," who only exist in the imaginations of deceived men, but has no physical existence, and others, but I never thought anyone would be so absurd as to put their faith in worldly philosophers and the egotistical nonsense they write.

As I have said in part before, When I was a very young girl brought up in a religiously divided household I could readily see both cult religions represented were completely wrong. When I was about eight years old, I started a search for the true religion as I well knew neither Catholicism (RCC) nor Islam could be that. I was constantly at the local library in my native village trying to learn more and by the time I was about 10 years old, I had taught myself to read English since most of the books on history and religion were either in English or German. I selected English as I considered it the up and coming language.

My grandfather, when I was a little girl in my native village, taught me early on to never waste anything. I was brought up in a mixed family religious wise, but by the time I was about 8 years old and I had already ascertained that neither Islam or Catholicism held any truth, and had already determined they only contained creedal hogwash dogma and tradition. I did a rigorous search visiting libraries and checking encyclopedias, dictionaries, history books, etc. and in the process improved my reading and comprehension skills to a level far above my peers in school. I even taught myself how to read English, as I said previously, a foreign language for me, as it was NOT one of the two or three languages used in my home or community. My father died when I was only 6 years old, and my grandfather took over the task of raising myself and my sisters and brothers. He raised us like he taught raw recruits when he was in the Legion, strictly military style with daily cadence marches before school. But he taught us to be independent and able to take care of ourselves and to think for ourselves, and that most religion was just plain phony. I learned to cultivate rice and wade in a rice patty, how to grow sugar cane, sweet potatoes, lettuce, etc. And my mother taught us how to cook all of our native dishes - mostly rice and bean dishes with a little bit of chicken. Until I went to New York City I had never heard of or eaten a hamburger or hot dog. But when my aunt took me to Coney Island, she got me both plus a candy corn cone. Subways were a mystery to me at first, as I thought it strange to go down into the earth to catch a train as the sugar cane train in my native village ran above ground.

When I was about 12, I was sent away from my native village to another country because the family thought I needed to learn more and I had exhausted the resources of our small library. They sent me to another country to a city with great library resources, New York City, USA. I loved the main library of that city in Manhattan, it had exceptionally great resources and even had electric lights so you did not have to sit by a window to read. Of course I had a problem the first year in the school there as all classes were in English which I had taught myself to read well, but I could NOT speak English as it was not one of the three languages I heard in my native village. By the age of 13, I saw most religions were totally wrong, but had narrowed my search to about 7 among which was the SDA. But the SDA when I did a comparison check in the big book that listed a 105 doctrines across the top in columns and religions in rows, page after page, I could see they were also in error.

CONCLUSION:

As I said at the beginning,

<<<" Some can not see the connection between love and justice, but Karen Lebacqz in her book, "Six Theories of Justice," published in 1986, said, "Indeed, perfect justice would be love. But since love cannot be fully ... Love requires justice for the complex realities of the sinful social world. ..." Yes, Almighty God (YHWH) believes in love, but he also believes in perfect justice. This fact has been clearly shown in the past with the judgment flood of Noah's day, sent to punish an ungodly world recorded in Genesis 6:4-13, [[previously quoted.]]>>>.

This is clearly shown by their terribly distorted view of reality and truth and their lack of comprehension of the true meaning of everyday words such as judgment, intolerance, genocide, ethnic-cleansing, etc. which they miss apply to situations they DO NOT FIT.

They should instead undertake a sincere and pure search for the genuine (true) religion and become genuine (true) followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and stop wasting time on misunderstandings and untruths.

To learn more, check out the following:

[1] religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Hi Everyone

My reply to a believer in egotistical worldly human philosophers.

[[he said]] Can anyone else comprehend the point I am trying to show Iris? If so, please speak up.

First, He overlooks reality and continually tries to find holes in it – irrationality.

Second, He says,

[[he said]] Also, is it not easy to understand that leaders can implant thoughts that another culture is "evil" by developing a sense of "righteous indignation" and fear and hatred that the other people are wanting to kill them or eat their children or other similar appeals to create an exaggerated or totally false dehumanized image of the other group in order to create the impetus to destroy the "other". It's been done so many times you would think that modern educated human beings would learn by now. But I guess that there will always be those sheep that are willing to "follow the leader" in whatever holy cause is initiated or justified by their religion and/or culture.

Without realizing that what he is saying does NOT apply to all. As I have said in the past with respect what one of the egotistical worldly self-centered worldly philosophers hypothesis which I clearly showed was only true in the limited case and did NOT have universality as follows:

Michael Shermer hypothesis is both correct and incorrect as it does NOT universally hold, but is only accurate as applied to individuals who accept a belief because it is the belief of their family and/or of their friends and/or because it fits their fancy such as your belief in egotistical worldly philosophers or Roman Christian’s belief in the RCC. It does NOT apply to those who have done extensive research without preconceived hypothesis of what the results will be and actually find the genuine (true) followers of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ as I did; to wit, in a scientific manner by an extensive process of elimination over many years. Now for all to know what the worldly philosopher, Michael Shermer, said, here it is,

[[he said]]The belief that one's faith is the only true religion too often leads to a disturbing level of intolerance, and this intolerance includes the assumption that nonbelievers cannot be as moral as believers.
--Michael Shermer, The Science of Good and Evil, Chapter 8, Rise Above: Tolerance, Freedom, and the Prospects for Humanity, p. 233

Not only is there no evidence that a lack of religiosity leads to less moral behavior, a number of studies actually support the opposite conclusion.
--Ibid, p. 235

The last part of the quote of his writing clearly shows that his hypothesis is of only limited application and is not universally applicable since reality is that genuine (true) followers of Christ continually strive to bring their lives in harmony with the thinking of Christ; this is the case that shows positively that Michael Shermer’s hypothesis in anything but universal in its application.

This fact of only limited application of his hypothesis is clearly shown by the examples he gives in his book as follows,

[[he posted]]Absolute morality leads logically to absolute intolerance. Once it is determined that one has the absolute and final answers to moral questons, why be tolerant of those who refuse to accept the Truth? Religiously based moral systems apply this system in spades. From the medieval Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition to the Holocaust and Bosnia, history is rife with examples of intolerance. In the name of God, religious people have sanctioned slavery, anti-Semitism, racism, homophobia, torture, genocide, ethnic cleansing, and war. In the name of their religion, people have burned women accused of witchcraft. The events of September 11, 2001, are a potent example of religious extremism gone political.
--Ibid, pp. 237-8

Genuine (true) followers of Christ had no part in any of the items cited, but remained neutral in all of them and/or were victims of them. Genuine (true) followers of Christ instead applied his words at Matthew 5:43-48 to their lives and acted accordingly, “Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy: 44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you; 45 that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust. 46 For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same? 48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (American Standard Version; ASV). Also, they pay heed to 1 Corinthians 6:15-20, “Know ye not that your bodies are members of Christ? shall I then take away the members of Christ, and make them members of a harlot? God forbid. 16 Or know ye not that he that is joined to a harlot is one body? for, The twain, saith he, shall become one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 Or know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own; 20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body.” (ASV), and Romans 1:19-29, “because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four–footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. 28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,” (ASV). Which are all things that egotistical worldly philosophers such as Michael Shermer and his ilk and their followers pay no attention to NOR do they try and bring their lives in harmony with. Now, I am not trying to say that the genuine (true) followers of Christ are perfect since they are not, but I am saying they are striving to bring their lives into harmony with the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible. Remember, even the Apostle Peter backslide a little and denied Christ three times, but later he was very sorry for this and brought his life back into harmony with the thinking of Christ.

Third, He says the following,

[[he said]] I find it hard to fathom that impartial, honest, intelligent people cannot understand this simple observation. That much like the saying that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", hatred and destructive acts motivated by the belief in "morality" allegedly inspired by an invisible outer space can be seen as holy, righteous and good by the ones doing the killing and acts of barbarism and terrorism by the ones on the receiving end of such violence.

Yet, he should well know reality and that he is wrong as I have told my real life case several times as follows,

When I was a very young girl brought up in a religiously divided household I could readily see both cult religions represented were completely wrong. When I was about eight years old, I started a search for the true religion as I well knew neither Catholicism (RCC) nor Islam could be that. I was constantly at the local library in my native village trying to learn more and by the time I was about 10 years old, I had taught myself to read English since most of the books on history and religion were either in English or German. I selected English as I considered it the up and coming language.

My grandfather, when I was a little girl in my native village, taught me early on to never waste anything. When I was about 12, I was sent away from my native village to another country because the family thought I needed to learn more and I had exhausted the resources of our small library. They sent me to another country to a city with great library resources, New York City, USA. I loved the main library of that city in Manhattan, it had exceptionally great resources and even had electric lights so you did not have to sit by a window to read. Of course I had a problem the first year in the school there as all classes were in English which I had taught myself to read well, but I could NOT speak English as it was not one of the three languages I heard in my native village. By the age of 13, I saw most religions were totally wrong, but had narrowed my search to about 7 among which was the SDA. But the SDA when I did a comparison check in the big book that listed a 105 doctrines across the top in columns and religions in rows, page after page, I could see they were also in error.

And I uncovered the genuine (true) followers of Christ, and NOT violent groups such as he speaks of that lust for violence, greed, and hate of all that differ with them instead of following what Jesus (Yeshua) Christ said at Matthew 5:43-48, “You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy. 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: 45 That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this? 47 And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? 48 Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.” (American Standard Version; ASV). He simply can NOT comprehend that only NONE genuine (true) followers of Christ, and worshipers of false god(s) and worldly egotistical human philosophers are given to a lust for violence, greed, and hate of others; whereas, genuine (true) followers of Christ are NOT.

Fourth, Here is further evidence that Prometheus simply can NOT comprehend that only NONE genuine (true) followers of Christ, and worshipers of false god(s) and worldly egotistical human philosophers are given to a lust for violence, greed, and hate of others; whereas, genuine (true) followers of Christ are NOT.

[[he said]] One individual's or religious group's "judgment" against another different than its own is another person's genocide and/or ethnic cleansing. Something you seem to readily recognize and condemn in other people's belief system, but it appears you will never allow yourself to apply to your own belief system.

For more details, go to,

[go to] Perfect Love Requires Perfect Justice: [90] at,

religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=only&thread=1202837827

Fifth, Then he goes on to say the following,

Those that follow their belief in the "Allah" version of the supposed invisible outer space deity genuinely and truly believe they are on a divine mission of judgment when they seek to cleanse the world of "infidels" (those that do not believe or act correctly from their perspective). Those that have been socially conditioned to follow "YHWH" as invented by the original tribal leaders of that belief system have been taught to believe the same type of thing (as you continue to show with your responses).

Still refusing to recognize reality, that all the groups he mentioned have NOT done a pure unbiased search for the genuine (true) religion as I did, and which I detailed in brief in part Third above. Nor does he acknowledge the truths I have presented with respect to the mythical god, the old middle eastern celestial Moon god, "Allah," who only exist in the imaginations of deceived men, but has no physical existence, and his followers. For additional details, go to,

[go to] www.network54.com/Forum/403209/ -- An Entire Forum Just on Allah and Islam.

Sixth, He needs to wake up to the truth per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

Your Friend in Christ Iris89