The Product Outcome of Muslim Education – Lust For

[iris89]

The Product Outcome of Muslim Education – Lust For Violence

INTRODUCTION:

Muslims are so arrogant as to want state funded Muslim schools, for proof of this, here is an exert from a post by one of them on a forum.

“There are big issues about racism in schools needed to be tackled but could not understand that Bilingual Muslim pupils need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.”

Now this is absolutely and utterly absurd for the following reasons.

FREEDOM OF RELIGION DOES NOT MEAN GIVING TO ONE OVER ANOTHER:

Using this absurd logic of this poster, would require if fairness is to be maintained, providing state funded religious schools for all religions. Not only is this absurd, but would lead to a much more polarized society when what is needed is a much more integrated society with all working together for a better society.

No nation needs a society divided up by religious cast into groups that become group think units instead of free thinkers who can independently sum up the world around them. Separate state funded religion for various religious groups would only lead to more destructive inward thinking group think among their members to the determent of society and the nation they are in.

A good example of this is India where centuries of group think called cast held the nation back from developing its potential, and only now as this group think cast system is slowly being torn down has the country started to progress. This example, and many others, clearly show the need for an integrated educational system and the elimination of backward inward learning group think if a society is to go forward and not backward.

In fact, separate education leads to various groups becoming radical and hating others, and the results of this lead to such things as subway bombings in London, train bombings in Spain, attacks on government forces in Thailand and the Philippians, World Trade Center destruction in New York, suicide bombers who desire to kill others, and countless other violent acts against others.

Now here is an actual account of what this inbreed destructive educational training and failure to integrate into society leads to:

<<”NYC police: Terror suspects wanted to commit jihad, Associated Press, [source – retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_re_us/us_temple_plot on 5/21/2009]

NEW YORK – The New York City police commissioner says four men wanted to commit jihad when they plotted to bomb a Jewish temple and shoot down military planes in upstate New York.
At a news conference outside the Bronx temple Thursday, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly quoted one of the men as saying, "If Jews were killed in this attack ... that would be all right."
However, Mayor Michael Bloomberg warned against stereotypes. He stressed that the Riverdale Temple is open to people of all faiths, including a Muslim girl who sometimes prays there.
The city leaders met privately with congregants Thursday morning. Kelly said the neighborhood security was heightened to improve residents' comfort level.
The defendants are due in federal court Thursday in White Plains.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below….”>>

Clearly this is NOT behavior we want to perpetuate, but to NOT have. However, it is the result of destructive religious education. Therefore, society should set up good state funded education that focuses on making good citizens of the students so they will respect others and their property and work together in a peaceful and worth while way to better society, and NOT the furtherance of separate destructive cast societies and the ultimate destruction of society.

A BRIEF LOOK AT THE RELIGION THAT WANTS SEPARATE STATE FUNDED SCHOOLS:

A brief look at the religion of which some of its members arrogantly want separate state funded schools clearly shows many of its members due to isolating themselves from an integrated society and dysfunctional religious education shows many in this group lust for violence and are full of hate.

The Weekend Australian (newspaper) had this to say on the matter,
<<"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other?” [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]>>

Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. How can we tolerate such intolerance?

This situation results from segregated religious education clearly making the case and/or need for a good integrated education and NOT a segregated religious one.

Clearly the results of segregated religious education types by Muslims is showen by the irrational insanity of some of Islam. Why are many in Islam irrationally insane? Let's look at the reason, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions. It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say. People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders. Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope, what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them. Therefore, it is the religion at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say. Neither is so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders. Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it. Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.

Truth is that in Islam, many of the religious leaders have insane and violent personal agendas due to their hate, greed, and a lust for violence and a good example is Muslim religious leader, Sheik Usama (Osama) bin Ladin, one of the evilist and wicked men who has ever lived. Their irrationally insane teachings lead to many unthinkable things and not to just 9/11, but to suicide bombings, auto bombs, killing of other members of Islam just because they profess a different flavor of Islam, and the list could go on almost to infinity. Of course the ultimate destination of Muslim religious education was recently shown in the Swat valley in Pakistan – the elimination of all useful secular education for girls.

CONCLUSION:

Separate education for various religious groups is only a prescription for disaster for society in general and is to be avoided by all thinking people.


To learn more, check out the following:

[1] religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Good Education Is Not Separatist As Some Would Lead You To Believe

INTRODUCTION:

There are some extremist that would lead you to believe separatist education is a good thing which it is not with ‘crappola’ arrogant arguments such as:

“Bilingual Muslim children need to learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.”

Of course that same wrong argument could be made for many religious groups and nationalities, but it is a divisive argument that if implemented would only lead to the destruction of society and the emergence of anti-society groups reminiscent of the dark ages. I well know as I myself came from a bilingual society and went to school where I was in classes many diverse groups and nationalities. In fact, the reality is the only way a society can maintain strong is by integrating ALL groups into the society through common education.

Now consider the fact that all groups could make the same stupid argument and what would you have? Chaos and not a society at all. Let’s look at this argument if carried to its logical conclusion!

GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED SCHOOLS FOR ALL LANGUAGE AND RELIGIOUS GROUPS:

Just imagine the same argument made in the introduction by a member of Islam could be made for all language groups and religious groups – separate but equal education. This of course does NOT work. The USA and the Union of South Africa tried it in the past with respect separate schooling for blacks and whites and Indians and it was a complete disaster so why should any society ruin itself by going to an educational scheme that has already been shown to be very destructive to society?

But then consider the logistic of such a scheme. If state supported religious education were given to one religion, It should also be given to all. To wit, a Hindu public school just for Hindu; a Methodist public school just for Methodist; a Buddhist public school just for Buddhist; an Orthodox public school just for Orthodox; a Zoroastrians public school just for Zoroastrians; etc. Of course this is utter nonsense and though treating all equally as should be done would clearly be complete nonsense. Same holds for students of various languages and especially with respect immigrants and/or families of immigrants since what is clearly needed by any nation is ONE UNIFYING LANGUAGE – of course this does NOT mean that any should be forced to speak the national language to each other, but all should be able to do so. I speak my own language at home, but the national language of the country I immigrated to at about 12. Bilingual is good for individuals and I feel all should know at least two languages, but these second languages should only be taught in foreign language classes and NOT used as the language of instruction in other subjects in state supported public schools.

Those maintaining for want of publicly supported schools just for their group are just deviant individuals seeking to subvert national unity and to tear society down. They use such ‘crappola’ arguments as,

“Muslim children have been attending state schools for tha last 60 years. They have been suffering from Paki-bashing and bullying. Majority of them have been leaving schools with low grades. They have been leaving schools without learning their cultural and linguistic skiils. The result is that they do not know where they belong. They suffer from Identity crises. Now Muslim youths are victim of terrorism. Thousands of them are being searched in streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar without any trial.”

But the real problem here which the writer intentionally did NOT STATE, is that the immigrant students that experience problems are the ones who wrap themselves in a cocoon of ‘separationism’ and reject fitting in with others. I know this from personal experience as I immigrated to another nation along with others of my nationality who did not have the appearance of the natives, but I made an attempt to fit in and they did NOT. I was one of the most popular students in the entire public school that I attended; whereas, many of them were quite unpopular and suffered accordingly. Why? Because when you reject others they will in turn reject you and you will become an outcast. I did NOT reject others and they did NOT reject me. So the solution to the items complained about in this ‘crappola’ argument is NOT separate state supported schools for each religion and immigranted in national group, but NOT wrapping yourself in a cocoon of ‘separationism’ but being friendly with all – and I proved this myself.

IMMIGRANTS SHOULD SEEK TO FIT IN THEIR NEW COUNTRY OR GO BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM:

If immigrants want to live exactly like they did in their country of origin and/or that of their ancestors, they should not seek to line in a cocoon of ‘separationism’ but go back to where they came from an not be so arrogant as to feel/think the new society they are in should be made over to their deviant wishes. Let’s get real, no one asked them to come. In my case, my mother sent me to a new country as she wanted me to get a better education – an integrated one. I quickly integrated and experienced no special unique problems in school, nor was I made ‘fun’ of by other students. All immigrants should seek to fit in as I did, while maintaining my own language and religious beliefs without any problems.


To learn more, check out the following:

[1] religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

HI EVERYONE

ALL OF THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED ON ANOTHER THREAD, NOW LET'S LOOK AT REALITY SINCE THIS POSTER CAN NOT KEEP SAME TYPES OF ITEMS ON ONE THREAD:

[1] First Answer:

FIRST, Racism is NOT being expected to learn the language of a country you move to. One should NOT move to a country if he/she does NOT want to try and learn the language and ways of his/her new country. A new country has the right to expect immigrants to learn their ways and fit in as this is only reasonable.

I had to learn the language and ways of the new country I immigrated to, and in no way considered this in any way racism, but just a reasonable thing to do. I well know as when I was about 12, I moved to another country that had a different language than that of my country and different customs, but instead of trying to isolate myself I worked to integrate into their culture and language as I believe all should who immigrant to a new country. This has absolutely nothing to do with racism, but every thing to do with becoming a well adjusted member of a new culture. If one does NOT wish to do this, they should NOT impose and/or try to impose their will on ones in a new country – THEY SHOULD NOT IMMIGRANT TO A NEW COUNTRY, it is as simple as that.
I should well know as I immigrated to another country, but worked to adapt to their language and culture and NEVER EXPERIENCED ANY RACISM, but others from my country that were arrogant and did NOT try and integrate and adapt to the language and customs of their new country experienced problems – these however were of their own making!

When I was a very young girl in my native village, I never knew there were individuals so absurd as to believe in and pay adoration to worldly philosophers instead of to Almighty God (YHWH). I did know there were false god(s) and that some people even considered the ruler of their nation was a god such as the ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, etc., but I never imagine there were individuals so blind to reality, the truth per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) that they would pay adoration to egotistical worldly philosophers and quote their absurd nonsense as if they considered it sacred scripture. As one individual, a cult member, I usually strongly disagree with brought out by posting the following scripture, Jeremiah 2:19, "Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and a bitter, that thou hast forsaken Jehovah thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord, Jehovah of hosts." (American Standard Version; ASV); ti wit, These individuals that pay adoration to worldly philosophers and treat their egotistical self-centered writings were for me as a young girl just unimaginable. I well knew of false god(s) such as the mythical god, the old middle eastern celestial Moon god, "Allah," who only exist in the imaginations of deceived men, but has no physical existence, and others, but I never thought anyone would be so absurd as to put their faith in worldly philosophers and the egotistical nonsense they write.

When I was a very young girl brought up in a religiously divided household I could readily see both cult religions represented were completely wrong. When I was about eight years old, I started a search for the true religion as I well knew neither Catholicism (RCC) nor Islam could be that. I was constantly at the local library in my native village trying to learn more and by the time I was about 10 years old, I had taught myself to read English since most of the books on history and religion were either in English or German. I selected English as I considered it the up and coming language.

My grandfather, when I was a little girl in my native village, taught me early on to never waste anything. I was brought up in a mixed family religious wise, but by the time I was about 8 years old and I had already ascertained that neither Islam or Catholicism held any truth, and had already determined they only contained creedal hogwash dogma and tradition. I did a rigorous search visiting libraries and checking encyclopedias, dictionaries, history books, etc. and in the process improved my reading and comprehension skills to a level far above my peers in school. I even taught myself how to read English, as I said previously, a foreign language for me, as it was NOT one of the two or three languages used in my home or community. My father died when I was only 6 years old, and my grandfather took over the task of raising myself and my sisters and brothers. He raised us like he taught raw recruits when he was in the Legion, strictly military style with daily cadence marches before school. But he taught us to be independent and able to take care of ourselves and to think for ourselves, and that most religion was just plain phony. I learned to cultivate rice and wade in a rice patty, how to grow sugar cane, sweet potatoes, lettuce, etc. And my mother taught us how to cook all of our native dishes - mostly rice and bean dishes with a little bit of chicken. Until I went to New York City I had never heard of or eaten a hamburger or hot dog. But when my aunt took me to Coney Island, she got me both plus a candy corn cone. Subways were a mystery to me at first, as I thought it strange to go down into the earth to catch a train as the sugar cane train in my native village ran above ground.

When I was about 12, I was sent away from my native village to another country because the family thought I needed to learn more and I had exhausted the resources of our small library. They sent me to another country to a city with great library resources, New York City, USA. I loved the main library of that city in Manhattan, it had exceptionally great resources and even had electric lights so you did not have to sit by a window to read. Of course I had a problem the first year in the school there as all classes were in English which I had taught myself to read well, but I could NOT speak English as it was not one of the three languages I heard in my native village. By the age of 13, I saw most religions were totally wrong, but had narrowed my search to about 7 among which was the SDA. But the SDA when I did a comparison check in the big book that listed a 105 doctrines across the top in columns and religions in rows, page after page, I could see they were also in error.

SECOND, with respect education in a new country, I find you get from it what you put into it. If you arrogantly try and put yourself apart or make yourself out as better than the natives, naturally they will be ‘cold’ to you – this is only human nature, but if you try to fit in and be friendly with the natives, you will have no problem as I can well attest to.

THIRD, All immigrants should try to fit in when in their new country instead of claiming racism. I did, and it worked beautifully, and I became one of the most popular students in my high school – get real if you arrogantly hold onto old ways you will NOT fit in and others will find it very distasteful.

Separate schools for various groups within a nation is definately NOT the way to go as this is counter productive as it does NOT work to adjust the students to the society of their new country nor to solidify society which is necessary for a strong and unified nation.

[2] Second answer:

The Product Outcome of Muslim Education – Lust For Violence

INTRODUCTION:

Muslims are so arrogant as to want state funded Muslim schools, for proof of this, here is an exert from a post by one of them on a forum.

“There are big issues about racism in schools needed to be tackled but could not understand that Bilingual Muslim pupils need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.”

Now this is absolutely and utterly absurd for the following reasons.

FREEDOM OF RELIGION DOES NOT MEAN GIVING TO ONE OVER ANOTHER:

Using this absurd logic of this poster, would require if fairness is to be maintained, providing state funded religious schools for all religions. Not only is this absurd, but would lead to a much more polarized society when what is needed is a much more integrated society with all working together for a better society.

No nation needs a society divided up by religious cast into groups that become group think units instead of free thinkers who can independently sum up the world around them. Separate state funded religion for various religious groups would only lead to more destructive inward thinking group think among their members to the determent of society and the nation they are in.

A good example of this is India where centuries of group think called cast held the nation back from developing its potential, and only now as this group think cast system is slowly being torn down has the country started to progress. This example, and many others, clearly show the need for an integrated educational system and the elimination of backward inward learning group think if a society is to go forward and not backward.

In fact, separate education leads to various groups becoming radical and hating others, and the results of this lead to such things as subway bombings in London, train bombings in Spain, attacks on government forces in Thailand and the Philippians, World Trade Center destruction in New York, suicide bombers who desire to kill others, and countless other violent acts against others.

Now here is an actual account of what this inbreed destructive educational training and failure to integrate into society leads to:

<<”NYC police: Terror suspects wanted to commit jihad, Associated Press, [source – retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_re_us/us_temple_plot on 5/21/2009]

NEW YORK – The New York City police commissioner says four men wanted to commit jihad when they plotted to bomb a Jewish temple and shoot down military planes in upstate New York.
At a news conference outside the Bronx temple Thursday, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly quoted one of the men as saying, "If Jews were killed in this attack ... that would be all right."
However, Mayor Michael Bloomberg warned against stereotypes. He stressed that the Riverdale Temple is open to people of all faiths, including a Muslim girl who sometimes prays there.
The city leaders met privately with congregants Thursday morning. Kelly said the neighborhood security was heightened to improve residents' comfort level.
The defendants are due in federal court Thursday in White Plains.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below….”>>

Clearly this is NOT behavior we want to perpetuate, but to NOT have. However, it is the result of destructive religious education. Therefore, society should set up good state funded education that focuses on making good citizens of the students so they will respect others and their property and work together in a peaceful and worth while way to better society, and NOT the furtherance of separate destructive cast societies and the ultimate destruction of society.

A BRIEF LOOK AT THE RELIGION THAT WANTS SEPARATE STATE FUNDED SCHOOLS:

A brief look at the religion of which some of its members arrogantly want separate state funded schools clearly shows many of its members due to isolating themselves from an integrated society and dysfunctional religious education shows many in this group lust for violence and are full of hate.

The Weekend Australian (newspaper) had this to say on the matter,
<<"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other?” [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]>>

Islam is intolerant of other religions, so much so that Christians in Nigeria, Sudan and middle eastern countries are killed for practicing their religion. Muslims are also responsible for burning down their churches. Sydney has recently seen an attack on four churches for similar reasons. How can we tolerate such intolerance?

This situation results from segregated religious education clearly making the case and/or need for a good integrated education and NOT a segregated religious one.

Clearly the results of segregated religious education types by Muslims is showen by the irrational insanity of some of Islam. Why are many in Islam irrationally insane? Let's look at the reason, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions. It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say. People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders. Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope, what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them. Therefore, it is the religion at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say. Neither is so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders. Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it. Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.

Truth is that in Islam, many of the religious leaders have insane and violent personal agendas due to their hate, greed, and a lust for violence and a good example is Muslim religious leader, Sheik Usama (Osama) bin Ladin, one of the evilist and wicked men who has ever lived. Their irrationally insane teachings lead to many unthinkable things and not to just 9/11, but to suicide bombings, auto bombs, killing of other members of Islam just because they profess a different flavor of Islam, and the list could go on almost to infinity. Of course the ultimate destination of Muslim religious education was recently shown in the Swat valley in Pakistan – the elimination of all useful secular education for girls.

CONCLUSION:

Separate education for various religious groups is only a prescription for disaster for society in general and is to be avoided by all thinking people.

[3] Third answer:

Good Education Is Not Separatist As Some Would Lead You To Believe

INTRODUCTION:

There are some extremist that would lead you to believe separatist education is a good thing which it is not with ‘crappola’ arrogant arguments such as:

“Bilingual Muslim children need to learn and be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.”

Of course that same wrong argument could be made for many religious groups and nationalities, but it is a divisive argument that if implemented would only lead to the destruction of society and the emergence of anti-society groups reminiscent of the dark ages. I well know as I myself came from a bilingual society and went to school where I was in classes many diverse groups and nationalities. In fact, the reality is the only way a society can maintain strong is by integrating ALL groups into the society through common education.

Now consider the fact that all groups could make the same stupid argument and what would you have? Chaos and not a society at all. Let’s look at this argument if carried to its logical conclusion!

GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED SCHOOLS FOR ALL LANGUAGE AND RELIGIOUS GROUPS:

Just imagine the same argument made in the introduction by a member of Islam could be made for all language groups and religious groups – separate but equal education. This of course does NOT work. The USA and the Union of South Africa tried it in the past with respect separate schooling for blacks and whites and Indians and it was a complete disaster so why should any society ruin itself by going to an educational scheme that has already been shown to be very destructive to society?

But then consider the logistic of such a scheme. If state supported religious education were given to one religion, It should also be given to all. To wit, a Hindu public school just for Hindu; a Methodist public school just for Methodist; a Buddhist public school just for Buddhist; an Orthodox public school just for Orthodox; a Zoroastrians public school just for Zoroastrians; etc. Of course this is utter nonsense and though treating all equally as should be done would clearly be complete nonsense. Same holds for students of various languages and especially with respect immigrants and/or families of immigrants since what is clearly needed by any nation is ONE UNIFYING LANGUAGE – of course this does NOT mean that any should be forced to speak the national language to each other, but all should be able to do so. I speak my own language at home, but the national language of the country I immigrated to at about 12. Bilingual is good for individuals and I feel all should know at least two languages, but these second languages should only be taught in foreign language classes and NOT used as the language of instruction in other subjects in state supported public schools.

Those maintaining for want of publicly supported schools just for their group are just deviant individuals seeking to subvert national unity and to tear society down. They use such ‘crappola’ arguments as,

“Muslim children have been attending state schools for tha last 60 years. They have been suffering from Paki-bashing and bullying. Majority of them have been leaving schools with low grades. They have been leaving schools without learning their cultural and linguistic skiils. The result is that they do not know where they belong. They suffer from Identity crises. Now Muslim youths are victim of terrorism. Thousands of them are being searched in streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar without any trial.”

But the real problem here which the writer intentionally did NOT STATE, is that the immigrant students that experience problems are the ones who wrap themselves in a cocoon of ‘separationism’ and reject fitting in with others. I know this from personal experience as I immigrated to another nation along with others of my nationality who did not have the appearance of the natives, but I made an attempt to fit in and they did NOT. I was one of the most popular students in the entire public school that I attended; whereas, many of them were quite unpopular and suffered accordingly. Why? Because when you reject others they will in turn reject you and you will become an outcast. I did NOT reject others and they did NOT reject me. So the solution to the items complained about in this ‘crappola’ argument is NOT separate state supported schools for each religion and immigranted in national group, but NOT wrapping yourself in a cocoon of ‘separationism’ but being friendly with all – and I proved this myself.

IMMIGRANTS SHOULD SEEK TO FIT IN THEIR NEW COUNTRY OR GO BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM:

If immigrants want to live exactly like they did in their country of origin and/or that of their ancestors, they should not seek to line in a cocoon of ‘separationism’ but go back to where they came from an not be so arrogant as to feel/think the new society they are in should be made over to their deviant wishes. Let’s get real, no one asked them to come. In my case, my mother sent me to a new country as she wanted me to get a better education – an integrated one. I quickly integrated and experienced no special unique problems in school, nor was I made ‘fun’ of by other students. All immigrants should seek to fit in as I did, while maintaining my own language and religious beliefs without any problems.


To learn more, check out the following:

[1] religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

One Product Of Islamic Education – an Actual Account:

INTRODUCTION:

Let’s look at the reality of Muslim education in some of their Mosques and what it leads to through an actual account published on May 24, 2009 by the Los Angeles Times (the largest newspaper in California).
As I have been saying all along, These many people fail to realize that most of mankind is being mislead by the religious leaders of evil false religions and/or egotistical men who believe what they say takes precedence over the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible. In addition, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an or other so called holy book actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions. It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say. People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders. Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope, what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them. Therefore, it is the religion at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say. Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders. Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it. Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.

The truth is most religious leaders either take things out of context and/or twist what their particular 'holy book' says to further their personal agendas or the agendas of the particular evil false religion they represent, what ever that may be. In reality, little thought or concern is ever given to what a particular 'holy book' actually says. Nowhere is this more true than with religious leaders who claim to be using the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, as their guide. This practice is particularly dishonoring of the Creator of all there is, Almighty God (YHWH), because it brings dishonor on his Inspired Word, the Bible, by many who see those proclaiming to follow the Bible are NOT really doing so. This hypocrisy gives many the wrong impression of the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, and unjustly brings reproach on it. This is very unfortunate and fits right in with the god of this system of things, Satan the Devil, with regard his continuing attempt to mislead all of mankind if possible.

At present, many members of Islam have been imbreed with a lust for violence and destruction, greed, and hate. But of course this has always been the Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) for Islam. How so? Let’s look, in brief, at some facts.

ISLAM LOVED VIOLENCE SINCE ITS INCEPTION:

Islam has spilled blood since its foundation in the Seventh Century. Let's look at its very beginnings, a raid on a camel caravan with spilling of blood.

<<<" Raid on B. Qudah at Dhat al-Salasil by Amr b. al-As - September, 629CE
Having suffered a terrible defeat in the hands of B. Qudah at Dhat Atlah, coupled with the ignoble retreat of the Muslim army from Mu'tah, Muhammad's prestige was greatly affected. It is said that he also received intelligence that a number of tribes, including B. Qudah were now preparing to attack Medina. To salvage his reputation he now empowered Amr b. al-As, the new convert of Islam, to push for a decisive raid on the stubborn B. Qudah tribe. Amr b. al-As was very furious that some of these tribes had taken the side of the Byzantine party during the Mu'tah battle. It was time to punish them-Muhammad determined.

So with three hundred (300) men and thirty horses, Amr b. al-As set out to decimate the rebellious B. Qudah who were settled at Dhat al-Salasil. It was at a distance of ten days march from Medina. Amr b. al-As' grandmother (i.e., the mother of al-As b. Wail, the father of Amr b. al-As) was a woman from Qudah or Bali tribe and Muhammad sent Amr b. al-As to convert her and her people to Islam by force. When Amr arrived at Dhat al-Salasil he found that the enemy had heavily outnumbered the Muslims.

Because of the feeble Islamic forces at his disposal Amr b. al-As sought reinforcement from Muhammad. The messenger of Allah quickly sent Abu Bakr b. Quhafa with an additional two hundred (200) men to assist Amr b. al-As. Thus, the total number of men now numbered five hundred (500)." [source - "Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims," The Root of Terrorism a la Islamic style Chapter 15, by Abul Kasem ]>>>

So as we can see, Islam started out with the spilling of innocent blood of those running the peaceful caravan of commerce, and it continued that way until the present. Yet members of this sham religion claim it is a religion of peace. This false claim makes one think of what Adolph Hitler said, <<<" 'The broad mass of a nation -..will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one'---Adolf Hitler (1889-1945)">>>.

EARLY BLOOD SPILLING BY ISLAM:

Next, came the <<<"Raid on B. Juhayna at al-Khabat (the expedition of fish) by Abu Ubaydah ibn Jarrah - October, 629CE

In the next month, Muhammad sent Abu Ubaydah b. Jarrah along with three hundred (300) men to attack and punish the tribe of Juhaynah at al-Khabat, on the seacoast, five nights journey from Medina. This was a very difficult expedition and the Muslims suffered from intense hunger-so much so, that they had to divide the dates by number. They even ate the leaves of trees for a month. However, there was no fighting as the enemy had fled when they heard of the arrival of the Muslims.
In the end, the Muslims caught a dead-sea creature (a whale) that came ashore and ate it for half a month (or twenty days, according to Ibn Ishak). This is why this raid is also known as the 'expedition of fish.' They brought some of that stale meat to Muhammad and he ate it too.">>>.

<<<"Sahih Bukhari records that the Muslims ate the mountain like fish for eighteen days. Here is the Hadith:
Volume 3, Book 44, Number 663:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
"Allah's Apostle sent an army towards the east coast and appointed Abu 'Ubaida bin Al-Jarrah as their chief, and the army consisted of three-hundred men including myself. We marched on till we reached a place where our food was about to finish. Abu- 'Ubaida ordered us to collect all the journey food and it was collected. My (our) journey food was dates. Abu 'Ubaida kept on giving us our daily ration in small amounts from it, till it was exhausted. The share of everyone of us used to be one date only." I said, "How could one date benefit you?" Jabir replied, "We came to know its value when even that too finished." Jabir added, "When we reached the sea-shore, we saw a huge fish which was like a small mountain. The army ate from it for eighteen days. Then Abu 'Ubaida ordered that two of its ribs be fixed and they were fixed in the ground. Then he ordered that a she-camel be ridden and it passed under the two ribs (forming an arch) without touching them.">>>.
This practice of spilling blood of the innocents continued right on in early Islam. Here is a short list of some of these blood spilling afairs:
[1] Beheading the leader of B. Jusham at al Ghabah by Abd Allah ibn Hadrad - November, 629CE [still being practiced today by members of Islam.]

[2] Raid on a passing caravan at Batn al-Idam by Abd Allah b. Abi Hadrad - November, 629CE [An example of desert piracy and blood spilling.]

[3] Raid on B. Khudra at Suria by Abu Qatadah - December, 629CE [An example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

[4] The Occupation of Mecca by Muhammad - January, 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

Footnotes, <<<"Hadith from Sahhi Bukhari on Muhammad's exclusive right to shed blood at the holy sanctuary:
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 303:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
Allah's Apostle said, "Allah made Mecca a sanctuary and it was neither permitted for anyone before, nor will it be permitted for anyone after me (to fight in it). And fighting in it was made legal for me for a few hours of a day only. None is allowed to uproot its thorny shrubs or to cut down its trees or to chase its game or to pick up its Luqata (fallen things) except by a person who would announce it publicly." 'Abbas bin 'Abdul-Muttlib requested the Prophet, "Except Al-Idhkhir, for our goldsmiths and for the roofs of our houses." The Prophet said, "Except Al-Idhkhir." 'Ikrima said, "Do you know what is meant by chasing its game? It is to drive it out of the shade and sit in its place." Khalid said, "('Abbas said: Al-Idhkhir) for our goldsmiths and our graves.">>>.

<<<"On the killing of the singing girl, Sunaan Abu Dawud records:
Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 14, Number 2678:
Narrated Sa'id ibn Yarbu' al-Makhzumi:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: on the day of the conquest of Mecca: There are four persons whom I shall not give protection in the sacred and non-sacred territory. He then named them. There were two singing girls of al-Maqis; one of them was killed and the other escaped and embraced Islam.">>>.

<<<"Those killings of the Meccan women smacks in the face of Islam's claim that the religion forbids the killing of women in a war. In fact, we can cite Sahih (authentic) Ahadith to demonstrate that the killings of polytheist women and children and old men are definitely sanctioned by Muhammad. Here are a few samples:

Sahih Muslim: Book 019, Number 4321:
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.
Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 14, Number 2664:
Narrated Samurah ibn Jundub:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Kill the old men who are polytheists, but spare their children." [source - [source - "Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims," The Root of Terrorism a la Islamic style Chapter 16, by Abul Kasem, email address on 05/24/2007 = [e-mail] ]

[5] The Destruction of al-Uzza at Nakhla by Khalid b. al-Walid - January, 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

[6] The Destruction of Suwa at Ruhat by Amr b. al-As - January, 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

[7] The Destruction of al-Manat at al-Kadid by Sa'd b. Zayd al-Ashhali - January, 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent, one being a poor black lady.]

[8] Plunder of B. Jadhimah at Tihamah by Khalid b. al-Walid - January, 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

footnote, <<<"Here is Sahi Hadith from Sahih Bukhari on the level of atrocity and cruelty perpetrated on B. Jadhimah by the Muslims:
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 628:
Narrated Salim's father:
The Prophet sent Khalid bin Al-Walid to the tribe of Jadhima and Khalid invited them to Islam but they could not express themselves by saying, "Aslamna (i.e. we have embraced Islam)," but they started saying "Saba'na! Saba'na (i.e. we have come out of one religion to another)." Khalid kept on killing (some of) them and taking (some of) them as captives and gave every one of us his Captive. When there came the day then Khalid ordered that each man (i.e. Muslim soldier) should kill his captive, I said, "By Allah, I will not kill my captive, and none of my companions will kill his captive." When we reached the Prophet, we mentioned to him the whole story. On that, the Prophet raised both his hands and said twice, "O Allah! I am free from what Khalid has done.">>>.

[9] Second Raid on B. Hawazin or the Battle of Hunayn by Muhammad - January, 630CE 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

[10] The Destruction of the idol Yaghuth at Dhu al-Kaffyan by Tufayl ibn 'Amr al-Dawsi - January, 630 [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

[11] The Siege of Taif by Muhammad - January, 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

Footnote, <<<"Hadith from Sahih Bukhari on the release of the captives of B. Hawazin:
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 716: Narrated Marwan and Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
When the delegates of the tribe of Hawazin came to the Prophet and they requested him to return their properties and captives. The Prophet stood up and said to them, "I have other people with me in this matter (as you see) and the most beloved statement to me is the true one; you may choose either the properties or the prisoners as I have delayed their distribution." The Prophet had waited for them for more than ten days since his arrival from Ta'if. So, when it became evident to them that the Prophet was not going to return them except one of the two, they said, "We choose our prisoners." The Prophet got up amongst the people and glorified and praised Allah as He deserved and said, "Then after, these brethren of yours have come to us with repentance, and I see it logical to return them the captives. So, whoever amongst you likes to do that as a favor, then he can do it, and whoever of you likes to stick to his share till we recompense him from the very first war booty which Allah will give us, then he can do so (i.e. give up the present captives)." The people unanimously said, "We do that (return the captives) willingly." The Prophet said, "We do not know which of you has agreed to it and which have not, so go back and let your leaders forward us your decision." So, all the people then went back and discussed the matter with their leaders who returned and informed the Prophet that all the people had willingly given their consent to return the captives. This is what has reached us about the captives of Hawazin. Narrated Anas that 'Abbas said to the Prophet, "I paid for my ransom and Aqil's ransom.">>>.

[12] The Raid on B. Tamim by Uyana b. Hisn - July, 630CE [Yet another example of blood spilling of the innocent.]

And the list of early blood lettings of the innocent by Islam could go on for many pages, but it is being stopped here as enough have been listed to establish the fact that early Islam was guilty of much blood letting per the name of this article, "Blood, Blood, and More Blood, the Story of Islam:"

CONTINUED EARLY BLOOD SPILLING BY ISLAM IN THE MIDDLE AGES:

A few salient examples will be given to illustrate how Islam, the sham religion, never stopped its evil and wicked blood spilling hate, greed, and lust for violence during the middle ages:

[1] <<<" Malik Kafur, the general of Alauddin Khalji, gave the Raja of Dwarsamudra a choice between Islam, death or payment of a huge idemnity.25 But under Muhammad bin Tughlaq there is greater insistence on the vanquished Hindu princes to embrace Islam. The most glaring example of this is that during the Warangal campaign all the eleven sons of the Raja of Kampila were made Muslims. Muhammad bin Tughlaq converted many people in this fashion. When Firoz Tughlaq invaded Jajnagar (Orissa), he captured the son of the Rai of Sikhar, converted him to Islam, and gave him the name of Shakr Khan.

The process of enslavement during war went on under the Khaljis and the Tughlaqs. Alauddin had 50,000 slaves37 some of whom were mere boys,38 and surely many captured during war. Firoz Tughlaq had issued an order that whichever places were sacked, in them the captives should be sorted out and the best ones (fit for service with the Sultan) should be forwarded to the court.39 Soon he was enabled to collect 180,000 slaves.40 Ziyauddin Barani's description of the Slave Market in Delhi (such markets were there in other places also) during the reign of Alauddin Khalji, shows that fresh batches of slaves were constantly replenishing them.41>
[ Indian Muslims:Who Are They-K.S. Lal Chapter 3-Proselytization in Provincial-Muslim Kingdoms -http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/imwat/ch3.htm]>>>.

[2] <<<" Starting with Al-Bilãdhurî who wrote in Arabic in the second half of the ninth century, and coming down to Syed Mahmudul Hasan who wrote in English in the fourth decade of the twentieth, we have cited from eighty histories spanning a period of more than twelve hundred years. Our citations mention sixty-one kings, sixty-three military commanders and fourteen sufis who destroyed Hindu temples in one hundred and fifty-four localities, big and small, spread from Khurasan in the West to Tripura in the East, and from Transoxiana in the North to Tamil Nadu in the South, over a period of eleven hundred years. In most cases the destruction of temples was followed by erection of mosques, madrasas and khãnqãhs, etc., on the temple sites and, frequently, with temple materials. Allãh was thanked every time for enabling the iconoclast concerned to render service to the religion of Muhammad by means of this pious performance.

Mahmûd of Ghazni robbed and burnt down 1,000 temples at Mathura, and 10,000 in and around Kanauj. One of his successors, Ibrãhîm, demolished 1,000 temples each in Hindustan (Ganga-Yamuna Doab) and Malwa. Muhammad Ghûrî destroyed another 1,000 at Varanasi. Qutbu'd-Dîn Aibak employed elephants for pulling down 1,000 temples in Delhi. "Alî I 'Ãdil Shãh of Bijapur destroyed 200 to 300 temples in Karnataka. A sufi, Qãyim Shãh, destroyed 12 temples at Tiruchirapalli. Such exact or approximate counts, however, are available only in a few cases. Most of the time we are informed that "many strong temples which would have remained unshaken even by the trumpets blown on the Day of Judgment, were levelled with the ground when swept by the wind of Islãm".>
[HINDU TEMPLES :WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM -Volume II :The Islamic Evidence- SITA RAM GOEL -Section III FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH-8. Summing up- www.voiceofdharma.org/books/htemples2/ch8.htm]>>>.

[3] << <Islamic imperialism knew no code of honor. The only rule of war they observed without fail was to fall down the helpless civil population after a decisive victory had been won on the battlefield. They sacked and burnt down villages and towns after the defenders had died fighting or had fled. The cows, the Brahmins and Buddhist Bhikshus invited their special attention in a mass murder of non-combatants. Their temples and shrines were their special targets in an orgy of pillage and destruction. Those that they did not kill, they captured and sold as slaves. The scene was described by Kanhadde Prabandha (1456 A.D) in the following words: "The conquering army burnt villages, devastated the land, plundered people's wealth, took Brahmins and children and women of all classes captive, flogged with thongs of raw hide, carried a moving prison with it, and converted the prisoners into obsequious Turks." [source: Story of Islamic Imperialism in India - By Sita Ram Goel ASIN 8185990239 p. 41-42-, www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught.htm ]>>>.

[4] <<<" These conquerors justified their deeds by claiming it was their religious duty to smite non-believers. Cloaking themselves in the banner of Islam, they claimed they were fighting for their faith when, in reality, they were indulging in straightforward slaughter and pillage. When these warriors settled in India, they ruled as absolute despots over a cowed Hindu populace. For generations, their descendants took their martial superiority over their subjects for granted. "... And a substantial number of Pakistani Muslims are secretly convinced that they are inherently superior to the Hindus. One irony, of course, is that contrary to their wishful thinking, the vast majority of Muslims in the subcontinent have more Hindu blood in their veins than there is Arab, Afghan, Turkish or Persian blood. Many of the invaders took Hindu wives and concubines." [source: Demons from the past - By Ifran Husain - dailytimes.com.pk- www.hinduwisdom.info/index_new.htm ]>>>.

[5] <<<" "From the time Muslims started arriving, around 632 AD, the history of India becomes a long, monotonous series of murders, massacres, spoliation's, and destruction's. It is, as usual, in the name of 'a holy war' of their faith, of their sole God, that the barbarians have destroyed civilizations, wiped out entire races." Mahmoud Ghazni, continues Danielou, "was an early example of Muslim ruthlessness, burning in 1018 of the temples of Mathura, razing Kanauj to the ground and destroying the famous temple of Somnath, sacred to all Hindus. His successors were as ruthless as Ghazni: 103 temples in the holy city of Benaras were razed to the ground, its marvelous temples destroyed, its magnificent palaces wrecked." Indeed, the Muslim policy vis a vis India, concludes Danielou, seems to have been a conscious systematic destruction of everything that was beautiful, holy, refined." [source - Histoire de l' Inde - By Alain Danielou p. 222 or A Brief History of India-, www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught.htm#Slaughter%20of%20the%20Hindu s]>>>.

[6] <<<" It is significant that one of the very few place-names on earth that reminds us not of the victory of the winners but rather of the slaughter of the losers, concerns a genocide of Hindus by the Muslims.
A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. The Encyclopaedia Britannica recalls that in December 1398 AD, Taimurlane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi; likewise, the number of captives butchered by Taimurlane's army was about 100,000.
The Britannica again mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian. Afghan historian Khondamir notes that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms '1,500,000 residents perished.' 'Thus, 'it is evident that the mountain range was named as Hindu Kush as a reminder to the future Hindu generations of the slaughter and slavery of Hindus during the Moslem conquests.' "[source: Where's India's holocaust museum? - By Francois Gautier - rediff.com-ttp://www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught.htm#Slaughter%20of%20the%20Hindu s ]>>>.

[7] The contemporary French writer François Gautier has said, <<<"The massacres perpetuated by Muslims in India are unparalleled in history, bigger than the Holocaust of the Jews by the Nazis; or the massacre of the Armenians by the Turks; more extensive even than the slaughter of the South American native populations by the invading Spanish and Portuguese."[http://www.hinduholocaust.com/HinduHolocaustMuseum.htm]>>>.

[8] K. S. Lai, the greatest of all historians in India said, <<<"Islam received a definite check in India. In other words, while countries like Arabia, Persia, Mesopotamia and Syria succumbed to the onslaught of Islam and converted en masse, the sword of Islam was blunted in India. This check provided provocation and enthusiasm to some Muslim conquerors and rulers to take to the task of proselytization with great zeal and earnestness. Their exertions and achievements find repeated mention in official and non-official chronicles and similar other works. Sometimes, besides broad facts, actual data and figures in this regard are also available. All this information is very helpful in estimating Muslim numbers as they grew from almost a cipher. "[source - comparable account of terror-tactics of the Muslim army as described by Persian chroniclers and Vidyapati in Kirtilata in K.S.Lal]>>>.

[9] Genocide and massacres and stealing of others lands and forced conversions continued as Islam's SOP <<<"Ikhtiyaruddin Bakhtiyar Khalji's military exploits in the east also resulted in conversions to Islam. About the end of the twelfth or the beginning of the thirteenth century," [source & comments - by S.K. Lal - The exact date of the raid is difficult to determine. Ishwari Prasad, Medieval India (Allahabad, Fourth Impression, 1940), p.138] places it" probably in 1197", [source - Wolseley Haig (C.H.I., III,pp.45-46] a little earlier than this, and [source - Habibullah, op. cit., pp.70 and 84, n. 78 in 1202-03.]>>; <<"he marched into Bihar and attacked the University centres of Nalanda, Vikramshila and Uddandapur, erecting a fortress at the site of Uddandapur or Odantapuri." [source - Indian Antiquary, IV, pp.366-67.]>>; <<"The Buddhist monks in these places were massacred and the common people, deprived of their priests and teachers, turned some to Brahmanism and some to Islam. Buddhism did not die out immediately or completely in Bihar." [source - Fuhrer, The Sharqi Architecture of Jaunpur, pp.70-73.]>>; <<"But Bakhtiyar's raid on Bihar did deliver a shattering blow to Buddhism and its lost followers were gained mainly by Islam. Muslim sway extended from Varanasi through the strip of Shahabad, Patna, Monghyr and Bhagalpur district," [source - Habibullah, op. cit., p.147]>>>.

[10] Islam continued with its same standard operating procedure, (SOP), <<<" With this conceptual framework let us examine the structure and organization of Muslim community in Hindustan in the eleventh and twelfth centuries. Punjab saw the emergence of Muslims as a local community consequent to the invasions of Mahmud of Ghazni. But for a few immigrants in the shape of Ghaznavid officers and soldiers, the bulk of Muslims were converts from the indigenous Hindu population. Similar was the case in "pockets" of Sind, Gujarat, Bihar and Malabar. The process of their conversion was hurried. All of a sudden the invader appeared in a city or a region, and in the midst of loot and murder, a dazed, shocked and enslaved people were given the choice between Islam and death. Those who were converted were deprived of their scalp-lock or choti and, if they happened to be caste people, also their sacred thread." [source - Indian Muslims, Who Are They by K.S. Lal and his footnote comments were, "The exact date of the raid is difficult to determine. Ishwari Prasad, Medieval India [source - Allahabad, Fourth Impression, 1940), p.138] places it" probably in 1197", [source - Wolseley Haig (C.H.I., III,pp.45-46)] a little earlier than this, and [source - Habibullah, op. cit., pp.70 and 84, n. 78 in 1202-03."]>>>.

[11] Now here are the facts, the reality, of the murder, genocide of over 80 million endividuals in India by Muslims, <<<"With the invasion of India by Mahmud Ghazni about 1000 A.D., began the Muslim invasions into the Indian subcontinent and they lasted for several centuries. The Muslim invasions continued even when the Muslims were ruling India, like the invasion of the Mongols during the reign of the Khiljis or the invasion of the Mughals in the early sixteenth Century when the Lodis were ruling Delhi. The last notable invasion of the Muslims from outside was the invasion of Nadir Shah in 1739, during which he unleashed a great horror on the native population.

During these seven hundred years of Muslim invasions and their conquest and rule of India, the Hindus were the greatest sufferers. It is difficult to estimate the number of Hindus who lost their lives during these campaigns, the number of Hindus who lost their lives in the religious persecution perpetrated on the native population by the Muslim rulers or the number of Hindus who were forcibly converted to Islam.

According to Prof. K.S. Lal, the author of the Growth of Muslim population in India, the Hindu population decreased by 80 million between 1000 AD, the year Mahmud Ghazni invaded India and 1525 AD, a year before the battle of Panipat.

One can safely add another 20 million Hindus to this list to account for the number that were killed during the Mughal rule or the rule of the Muslim rulers in the Deccan plateau. By all known accounts of world history, as pointed out by Koenard Elst in his book the Negationism in India, destruction of about 100 million hindus is perhaps the biggest holocaust in the whole world history." [source - The biggest holocaust in world history by Jayaram V]>>>.

This clearly showing that the Muslims were responsible for the greatest genocide in all of human history, but let's look at more facts with respect this crime against humanity.

Let's look at a quote from Chapter 5 of a history book by India's greatest historian, K.S. Lal, see information about him in the footnote at end of quote, <<<"Factors Contributing to the Growth of Muslim Population, Conversions -
Islam has spread in many parts of the world through wars and campaigns[[Its spread was not peaceful but by the proverbial sword]]. In the medieval Indian chronicles the sovereign is always mentioned as 'the king of Islam', the territories of his empire are referred to as the 'land of Islam', its armies as 'soldiers of Islam', and its religious and Judicial head as 'Shaikh-ul-Islam'. The monarch was committed to make Islam the true basis of private and public life through the enforcement of the Shariat and to convert the people to the "true faith". In India the Muslim rulers' keenness to obtain converts in war is vouched by many chroniclers. The Tarikh-i-Muhammadi gives a clear idea of the psychology of the rulers in this regard. Its author was a contemporary of Sultan Nasiruddin Mahmud, the son of Firoz Tughlaq. He says that while fighting Rai Subir (Sumer) in the vicinity of Iraj, the Sultan thought: 'If I will give orders to the army to fight (outright), they will not leave even a trace of the Kafirs [[none Muslims]] in the region, but if I shall advance slowly, then probably these people will agree to embrace Islam."3


What professor Mohammad Habib writes concerning the Mongol applies equally to Turkish expeditions. "In 1330 the country was invaded by the Mongols who indulged in arson, rape and murder throughout the Valley (of Kashmir). The king and the Brahmans fled away but among the inhabitants who remained... Muslim ways of life were gradually adopted by the people as the only alternative..."4 Thus warfare brought captives, and captives were made Musalmans. Such was not the situation only in the North; in South also such methods of conversion prevailed, especially during wars between Bahmani and Vijayanagar kingdoms. Throughout the medieval period such wars were common, and forcible conversions [[Conversions by the proverbial sword.]] helped in the rapid growth of Muslim population.

The rulers used force and persuasion in equal measure. Their resources were great. They could give jobs, honours, and titles and many other economic concessions and status benefits as inducements to conversion, and many people would have taken advantage of these facilities. We have referred to Mubarak Khalji's encouragement to Hindus to accept Islam by presenting the convert with a robe and a gold ornament. People used to be converted in this fashion right up to the reign of Aurangzeb and perhaps even thereafter. There were other methods too.

When a religion let's its religious leaders get totally out of bounds and endanger world peace, it is time to dissolve it. Now of course this is NOT to be taken as saying and/or implying that all the religious leaders in a particular religion are bad people. However, if the good religious leaders in a religion can NOT control the bad actions of other religious leaders within the group or do NOT desire to do so, and the unchecked actions of the bad ones endanger world peace, it is time to dissolve the religion.

THE PRESENT – RESULTS OF SEGREGATED EDUCATION IN MUSLIM MOSQUES:

At present, many in Islam are being inbreed with the lust for violence and to destroy, greed, and hate in some Muslim Mosques, and now some in England have the audacity and arrogance to want state supported schools to continue this negative practice and give nonsense excuses such as,

“Muslim children have been attending state schools for tha last 60 years. They have been suffering from Paki-bashing and bullying. Majority of them have been leaving schools with low grades. They have been leaving schools without learning their cultural and linguistic skiils. The result is that they do not know where they belong. They suffer from Identity crises. Now Muslim youths are victim of terrorism. Thousands of them are being searched in streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar without any trial.”

But these self same individuals fail to mention it is their ‘separatism’ none integration mentality that brings on their problems. Immigrants that seek to become part of the society instead of trying to remain separate from it do not typically experience any of these conditions. So what is needed in any society is an excellent secular education for all and instruction of being a good citizen useful to society. The failure of such a good secular education leads to subway and bus bombings, attempts to blow up airports such as occurred in Scotland by a group of Muslim doctors, etc. These events alone should be enough warning to all that separate state supported religious schools must never be allowed. In addition, governments should pass laws forbidding the teaching and inbreeding of a lust for violence and destruction, greed, and hate in religious institutions, Mosques, Churches, etc., by religious leaders such as Priest, Imams, Muftis, etc.
ACTUAL EXAMPLE OF DESTRUCTIVE NATURE OF MUSLIM EDUCATION:
Al Qaeda recruits back in Europe, but why?
Four men say their training experience in Pakistan wasn't what they hoped for. Anti-terrorism officials wonder if they're just biding their time, ready to strike in Europe.
[source - By Sebastian Rotella, May 24, 2009, Los Angeles Times, retrieved from www.latimes.com/news/la-fg-junior-jihadis24-2009may24,0,654217.story?page=1&track=ntothtml on 5/24/2009]
Reporting from Brussels -- Determined to die as martyrs, the French and Belgian militants bought hiking boots and thermal underwear and journeyed to the wilds of Waziristan.

After getting ripped off in Turkey and staggering through waist-deep snow in Iran, the little band arrived in Al Qaeda's lair in Pakistan last year, ready for a triumphant reception.
"We were expecting at least a welcome for 'our brothers from Europe' and a warm atmosphere of hospitality," Walid Othmani, a 25-year-old Frenchman from Lyon, recalled during an overnight interrogation in January.

Instead, the Europeans -- and at least one American -- learned that life in the shadow of the Predator is nasty, brutish and short.

Wary of spies, suspicious Al Qaeda chiefs grilled the half-dozen Belgians and French. They charged them $1,200 each for AK-47 rifles, ammunition and grenades. They made them fill out forms listing next of kin and their preference: guerrilla fighting, or suicide attacks?
Then the trainees dodged missile strikes for months. They endured disease, quarrels and boredom, huddling in cramped compounds that defied heroic images of camps full of fraternal warriors.

"What you see in videos on the Net, we realized that was a lie," Othmani told police. "[Our chief] told us the videos . . . served to impress the enemy and incite people to come fight, and he knew this was a scam and propaganda."

Disenchantment aside, the accounts of four of the returning militants arrested in Europe combine with intercepts to paint a detailed picture of Al Qaeda's secret compounds. They also reinforce intelligence that a campaign of U.S. Predator drone airstrikes has sown suspicion and disarray and stoked tension with tribes in northwestern Pakistan, anti-terrorism officials say.

At the same time, the case shows that wily militant leaders still wage war in South Asia and train a flow of foreign recruits. The few trainees from the West remain an urgent concern. Anti-terrorism forces have detected at least one American, a convert to Islam, who trained with Al Qaeda in Pakistan during the last year, Western officials say.

Militant paths from the U.S. and Europe may cross: Prosecutors in Brussels have made a request to interrogate a witness now in the United States who was in Pakistan with the European suspects, a Belgian anti-terrorism official said.

Police in Europe tracked the group's radicalization and travel with the help of real-time U.S. intercepts that corroborate the confessions, and they exploited the men's reliance on the Internet. Fear of an imminent attack spurred their arrests here in December after Hicham Beyayo, 25, a Belgian just back from Pakistan, sent a troubling e-mail to his girlfriend.

"I am leaving for an O [operation] and I don't think I will return," Beyayo wrote Dec. 6, according to investigative documents. "My request has been accepted. You will get a video from me to you from the [organization]."

Beyayo told police that he was boasting to impress his girlfriend. But investigators believe the group may have been groomed for missions at home.

"They were much more valuable for operations in Europe," said the Belgian anti-terrorism official, who, like others interviewed, requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "Al Qaeda does not need Belgians and French to fight in Afghanistan."

Islamic resistance doesn't come cheap

Beyayo is about 5-foot-5, chubby and bespectacled. Like the others, he is of North African descent. He grew up in the tough Anderlecht neighborhood of Brussels, and his brothers have done time for robbery and arms trafficking. But he does not have a criminal record. He interspersed college courses with fundamentalist Islam.

"He is the intellectual of the family," said his lawyer, Christophe Marchand. "He bears no ill will against Belgium. He went to Afghanistan to join an Islamic resistance movement."

Islamic resistance is expensive. The unemployed Beyayo scrounged together about $5,000 for the trip.

The Frenchman Othmani, a father of two, had to borrow about $1,000 from his mother, and he spent hundreds on hiking boots, a sleeping bag, thermal underwear and a "big Columbia-brand jacket for the cold."

The leader was Moez Garsalloui, 42, a Tunisian married to the Belgian widow of a militant who killed Ahmed Shah Massoud, an anti-Taliban warlord, in a suicide bombing two days before the Sept. 11 attacks.

The balding, bearded Garsalloui sought recruits among visitors to a radical website run by his wife, who is revered in militant circles.

It was Garsalloui's first trip to South Asia, but he took advantage of his wife's strong Al Qaeda ties, investigators say. He organized smuggling contacts and met four Belgians and two French in Istanbul in December 2007. He carried a bag full of cash -- about $40,000, according to the confessions.

Garsalloui went ahead alone, leaving the others to a harsh monthlong trek. Turkish smugglers frightened them by waving a pistol around, charged extra because they were "Arabs," and stole their gear and clothes, claiming it was for charity.

"They cleaned us out," Othmani recalled. "What they took was for the so-called poor, but evidently it was nothing of the kind."

Later, the recruits tried to burn their passports "because we all intended to die as martyrs in Afghanistan," Othmani said. But the smugglers confiscated the documents.
Next came a nocturnal mountain crossing into Iran. The recruits struggled through deep snow. A Belgian's foot turned blue. Beyayo fell repeatedly, dragged along by comrades as he moaned that this was the place where they would die.

After several men called their mothers from Iran, the group entered Pakistan via Zahedan, an Iranian border town that is a hub for militants and smugglers, the Belgian anti-terrorism official said. As they approached the tribal zone dominated by the Taliban, military patrols looked the other way and diners at a roadside restaurant seemed to know exactly where they were headed.

Their destination was a village in the Waziristan region about two hours past Bannu. But the reception was nothing like the heyday of the Afghan camps when Westerners, especially converts, got a chance to meet Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden himself.

Saudi Arabians armed with AK-47s emerged from a mosque looking hostile. They thought the French in particular could be spies, a senior French anti-terrorism official said. Increasing infiltration has contributed to recent captures and killings of militants, investigators say.

"They thought they would get a hero's welcome because they were Europeans," the Belgian official said. "That was not the case."

Tensions eased when Garsalloui showed up. But the recruits were kept in a kind of limbo. They had the misfortune of arriving just as U.S. forces unleashed a drone-fired missile barrage that would kill half a dozen veteran Al Qaeda chieftains in 2008. In an e-mail to his wife, Garsalloui said he narrowly escaped a strike that had killed a top Libyan. "I came close to dying," he wrote.

Fearful of the drones as well as informants spotting them and targeting hide-outs for missile strikes, the trainees hunkered inside during the day. They moved frequently among crowded, squalid houses shared with local families in mountain hamlets.

Hoping to fight the Americans

The suspects say they wanted desperately to fight American troops in Afghanistan. To their dismay, the chiefs made them cough up more cash for weapons. They were assigned to train with an Arab group numbering 300 to 500, but spread out in small units for security. Religious and military instruction took place indoors, with firearms and explosives sessions confined to courtyards for secrecy.

A Saudi chief named Mortez assured the Europeans that they would go to the Afghan front. But idle weeks followed.

"We were quite angry for different reasons," Beyayo recalled. "We waited and Mortez's promises didn't come true. Life as seven together plus the host family was not always easy. And . . . [Garsalloui] played the little boss and gave us orders."

Only Garsalloui and a strapping Belgian, who both spoke fluent Arabic, went to Afghanistan as part of a Saudi unit.

Garsalloui later e-mailed a photo of himself wielding a grenade launcher to his wife. He bragged to comrades that he had killed American soldiers with a bazooka. Investigators are trying to verify the claim.

Meanwhile, Beyayo and Othmani say they chafed in safe houses, cooking foul meals, cringing during bombardments, getting sick. Beyayo suffered a bout of malaria.

A slippery character named Amar appeared, worsening the mood.

"We realized with time that this individual was there to test us, to spy on us," Beyayo recalled.

"He also gave us a speech according to which we should not dream because we were not ready to fight. . . . The idea of going back to Belgium and France began to form among us. Morale-wise, we were crushed."

One Belgian stormed out, intent on reaching the nearest city on his own and making his way back to Europe, the Belgian anti-terrorism official said. After hours of hiking through a desolate valley, he realized that it was hopeless and turned back.

Late last year, Beyayo, Othmani and two others finally came home and into the clutches of police, who had monitored them closely. A central question: the extent of their involvement in terrorist activity.
Their defense lawyers insist that they are failed holy warriors.

"They just weren't tough enough," Marchand said.

Investigators have doubts. French police point out that the explosives instruction described by Othmani is far more extensive than that received by many previous trainees.

Police think the Europeans may have exaggerated their haplessness to conceal a dark purpose.

"We must therefore ask ourselves for what motive someone in [Pakistan] would take such a risk to shelter people who had no goal or usefulness as declared in some interrogations," a French police report concludes.

Assessing the threat is difficult: Sinister aspects mix with the mundane. The complaints about malaria, money and disrespect sum up the story. But so does the image of Garsalloui posing with his rocket launcher, eager to kill Americans.

CONCLUSION:

As has been shown in the above, what is really needed is an excellent education that stresses being good citizens and an integration of all the diverse groups of a society, and NOT the opposite.


To learn more, check out the following:

[1] religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Red Herring Arguments For State Supported Separate Schools For Religious Groups:

INTRODUCTION:

Some want state supported schools for religious groups and put forth various red herring arguments such this is necessary to prevent 'bullying,' but even private religious schools have the problem of 'bullying,' so this argument is without validity. 'Bullying' is not related to religion but to, <<" A power imbalance is found at the heart of the bullying dynamic. A student who is stronger, more aggressive, bolder, and more confident than average typically bullies other students who are weaker, more timid, and who tend not to retaliate or act in an assertive manner. Sometimes older students bully younger ones, or upper year students bully new students. Sometimes bullies pick on students who are disadvantaged by being new immigrants or are from a cultural minority group." .[source - BULLYING - Information for Parents and Teachers, retrieved from www.lfcc.on.ca/bully.htm on 5/28/2009]>>.

Or they use red herring arguments such as, <<". The curriculum needs to be more balanced and less Eurocentric. Pupils grow up thinking there is no other playwright than Shakespeare. An ethnicity "Tsar" should be appointed to reform British schooling. Muslim schools performed best overall, although they constitute only a fraction of the country's 7000 schools. Muslim schools do well because of their Islamic ethos and a focus on traditional discipline and teaching methods. They teach children what is right and what is wrong, because young children need structural guidance. Muslim school is responsible for the development of the whole child. Muslim schools give Muslim children "pride, identity and a sense of culture and languages." [source - a post by Iftikhar Ahmad, London School of Islamics Trust,
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk ]>>.

Sounds great until one thinks about it. If one immigrants to another land, one should expect to hear about their playrights and their history. If one does NOT want to hear about these, THEY SHOULD STAY IN THEIR OWN LAND!

For example, if one were to move to Syria, they would be unreasonable to not expect to hear about Saadallah Wannus (1941-1999), the finest political playwright in Syria, whose career was transformed after the Arab defeat of the Arab-Israeli War of 1967, or some other Syrian or middle eastern playright and to hear about Syrian history and NOT for example Japanese history. To expect otherwise is as dumb as going into a bakery and expecting to find automobile and tractor parts.

But most of all it is very important to have an integrated and strong society NOT divided into little groups or caste, and having a common language to communicate in. India is an example of the adverse conditions when a society is fragmented and NOT integrated. It is a great land with plenty of potential, but it has NOT realized this potential due to its society being fragmented into various caste and language groups. Now this is in no way implying that one should NOT have a second language as all should also be taught a second language, but to stress the need for one unifying language. Los Angeles is a great example of a fragmented society where many residents do not speak a common language, and this is causing many unnecessary dysfunctions.

And religious education to the exclusion o***ood general education can and will destroy society. How so? Consider this, many people fail to realize that most of mankind is being mislead by the religious leaders of evil false religions and/or egotistical men who believe what they say takes precedence over the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible. In addition, it is not what either the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an or other so called holy book actually say, but how religious leaders be they priest and/or imams or muftis or what ever teach the people is the interpretation of what is written either in the Bible or the bible knockoff the Qur'an that matters and governs actions. It matters not what the Bible and/or the Bible knockoff really say. People go by what they are taught by their religious leaders. Take the genocide committed by the Roman Catholic Church at the direction of their supreme religious leader, the pope, what mattered was not that the Bible clearly said at Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not kill." (Authorized King James Bible; AV), but what their religious leaders told them. Therefore, it is the religion at fault, irregardless of what their particular holy book, be it the Bible or the Bible knockoff the Qur'an may say. Neither in so called Christianity or in Islam are most individuals actions really governed in any way by what their particular holy book really says, but they are governed by the interpretation of their religious leaders. Thus, knowing this reality, one would be either just plain stupid and/or dumb to even bother looking at a particular religion's holy book and expect the members would conform to it. Take the Rig Vede and find me for example a Hindu actually conforming to it instead of the interpretation given to it by his religious leaders, like looking for a needle in the haystack per K.S. Lal, India's greatest historian.

The truth is most religious leaders either take things out of context and/or twist what their particular 'holy book' says to further their personal agendas or the agendas of the particular evil false religion they represent, what ever that may be. In reality, little thought or concern is ever given to what a particular 'holy book' actually says. Nowhere is this more true than with religious leaders who claim to be using the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, as their guide. This practice is particularly dishonoring of the Creator of all there is, Almighty God (YHWH), because it brings dishonor on his Inspired Word, the Bible, by many who see those proclaiming to follow the Bible are NOT really doing so. This hypocrisy gives many the wrong impression of the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, and unjustly brings reproach on it. This is very unfortunate and fits right in with the god of this system of things, Satan the Devil, with regard his continuing attempt to mislead all of mankind if possible.

When a religion let's its religious leaders get totally out of bounds and endanger world peace, it is time to dissolve it. Now of course this is NOT to be taken as saying and/or implying that all the religious leaders in a particular religion are bad people. However, if the good religious leaders in a religion can NOT control the bad actions of other religious leaders within the group or do NOT desire to do so, and the unchecked actions of the bad ones endanger world peace, it is time to dissolve the religion.

Let's look at an actual example where the good religious leaders of a religion are NOT reining in the bad, i.e., NOT cleaning out the bad ones either by excommunication and/or other means where dissolution may be the best solution, and where religious freedom can be maintained by giving members of this religion the opportunity to choose any of the other 33,000 plus religions.

A SO CALLED RELIGION THAT HAS SPILLED BLOOD FROM ITS BEGINNING:

Islam has spilled blood since its foundation in the Seventh Century. Let's look at its very beginnings, a raid on a camel caravan with spilling of blood.

<<<" Raid on B. Qudah at Dhat al-Salasil by Amr b. al-As - September, 629CE

Having suffered a terrible defeat in the hands of B. Qudah at Dhat Atlah, coupled with the ignoble retreat of the Muslim army from Mu'tah, Muhammad's prestige was greatly affected. It is said that he also received intelligence that a number of tribes, including B. Qudah were now preparing to attack Medina. To salvage his reputation he now empowered Amr b. al-As, the new convert of Islam, to push for a decisive raid on the stubborn B. Qudah tribe. Amr b. al-As was very furious that some of these tribes had taken the side of the Byzantine party during the Mu'tah battle. It was time to punish them-Muhammad determined.

So with three hundred (300) men and thirty horses, Amr b. al-As set out to decimate the rebellious B. Qudah who were settled at Dhat al-Salasil. It was at a distance of ten days march from Medina. Amr b. al-As' grandmother (i.e., the mother of al-As b. Wail, the father of Amr b. al-As) was a woman from Qudah or Bali tribe and Muhammad sent Amr b. al-As to convert her and her people to Islam by force. When Amr arrived at Dhat al-Salasil he found that the enemy had heavily outnumbered the Muslims.

Because of the feeble Islamic forces at his disposal Amr b. al-As sought reinforcement from Muhammad. The messenger of Allah quickly sent Abu Bakr b. Quhafa with an additional two hundred (200) men to assist Amr b. al-As. Thus, the total number of men now numbered five hundred (500)." [source - "Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims," The Root of Terrorism a la Islamic style Chapter 15, by Abul Kasem ]>>.

So as we can see, Islam started out with the spilling of innocent blood of those running the peaceful caravan of commerce, and it continued that way until the present. Yet members of this sham religion claim it is a religion of peace. This false claim makes one think of what Adolph Hitler said, <<<" 'The broad mass of a nation -..will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one'---Adolf Hitler (1889-1945)">>>.

MODERN MISLEADING BY MADRASSAS OR ISLAMIC SCHOOLS - THEIR PRODUCT:

The product of madrassas, using Pakistan as an example, has been disastrous to society. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are two of the products of same; whereas, good education seeks to integrate and make a society more integrated and productive, these madrassas seek to instill separatism, love for violence and destruction, greed, and hate. And what has this resulted in? Many things that destroy society such as destruction of general education schools for women (now the count is well over 100), suicide bombers, and events such as the following,
<<" Scenic Pakistani valley falls to Taliban militants
By NAHAL TOOSI, Associated Press Writer Nahal Toosi, Associated Press Writer - retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_valley_of_fear on 12/29/2008]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Taliban militants are beheading and burning their way through Pakistan's picturesque Swat Valley, and residents say the insurgents now control most of the mountainous region far from the lawless tribal areas where jihadists thrive.

<<"The deteriorating situation in the former tourist haven comes despite an army offensive that began in 2007 and an attempted peace deal. It is especially worrisome to Pakistani officials because the valley lies outside the areas where al-Qaida and Taliban militants have traditionally operated and where the military is staging a separate offensive.

The deteriorating situation in the former tourist haven comes despite an army offensive that began in 2007 and an attempted peace deal. It is especially worrisome to Pakistani officials because the valley lies outside the areas where al-Qaida and Taliban militants have traditionally operated and where the military is staging a separate offensive." [Scenic Pakistani valley falls to Taliban militants, By NAHAL TOOSI, Associated Press Writer Nahal Toosi, Associated Press Writer - retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_valley_of_fear on 12/29/2008]>>.

And,

<<"PESHAWAR, Pakistan (Reuters) - Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility on Thursday for a suicide gun and bomb attack in the city of Lahore the previous day that killed 24 people and wounded nearly 300." [source - Pakistan Taliban claim responsibility for Lahore attack, Reuters, By Alamgir Bitani Alamgir Bitani - 2 hrs 46 mins ago, retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090528/ts_nm/us_pakistan_violence on 5/28/2009]>>.

Of course this madrassas and mosque inspired violence due to wrong religious education is no way limited to Pakistan, but even exist in New York City, NY, USA where one blind Imam living in New Jersey, but originally from Egypt urged his followers to attack and take out the World Trade Center in New Your City. This effort only resulted in major damage, but another madrassas and mosque inspired violence lead by a Muslim religious leader, Sheik Osama (Usama) bin Ladin took it out on 9/11/2001. Why? Absurd religious education as the building was doing no one any harm.

THIS SAME VIOLENT AND HATEFUL MADRASSAS AND MOSQUE INSPIRED VIOLENCE LEADS TO MOVEMENTS TO BREAK UP SOCIETY:

Let's first look at the situation in Thailand!

Occupation of the subjugated nations continues until the present as the aim of Islamic Imperialism. Take what is now occurring in Thailand as an example, <<<" The premier blamed the assault on the Mujahideen Islam Pattani, one of several Muslim separatist groups accused of killing about 50 police officers over the previous three years. The banned Pattani United Liberation Organization (PULO) had boasted in May 2003 that Thai security forces were "falling like leaves" as Muslims fought to free the south from Bangkok's rule..."[source - GlobalSecurity.org, www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/thailand2.htm on 5/12/2007]>>>.

Now let's look at Philippines!

<<"... The Muslim Secessionist Movement in Southern Philippines was for a time the most serious threat to the stability of the country. It started in the late 1960s with the formation of the Muslim Independence Movement. In the 197Os, the Moro National Liberation Front emerged as the lead secessionist organization. It waged a furious war against central authority. The objective of the MNLF is to establish a separate state comprising the islands of Mindanao, Basilan, Sulu, Tawi-Tawi and Palawan. The hostilities reached its peat in the mid 70s when the MNLF received support from Libya and Sabah...." [source - The Muslim Secessionist Movement in the Philippines. Issues and Prospects, Descriptive Note : Master's thesis, Corporate Author : NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL MONTEREY CA
Personal Author(s) : Domingo, Ruben G., 1995]>>

Now let's look at China!

<<" The East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) is a militant Muslim separatist group in Xinjiang province in northwest China. The U.S. State Department listed the ETIM as a terrorist organization in 2002 during a period of increased U.S.-Chinese cooperation on antiterrorism matters in the wake of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. The Chinese authorities have called the group a threat (ChinaDaily) to the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing,... However, some experts say the ETIM does pose a security threat. The question of China's vulnerability to terrorism resurfaced in July 2008 when a group calling itself the Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) took credit for a series of attacks (Xinhua) in several Chinese cities, including deadly bus explosions in Shanghai and Kunming. The group also threatened to target the Beijing Olympics. Some counterterrorism experts claim the TIP was the ETIM using another name." [source - The East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), by Holly Fletcher and Jayshree Bajoria, Staff Writer, retrieved from www.cfr.org/publication/9179/ on 5/22/2009]>>.

THE PRESENT - RESULTS OF SEGREGATED EDUCATION IN MUSLIM MOSQUES:

So as can be seen, many in Islam are being inbreed with the lust for violence and to destroy, greed, and hate in some Muslim Mosques, and now some in England have the audacity and arrogance to want state supported schools to continue this negative practice and give nonsense excuses such as,

"Muslim children have been attending state schools for tha last 60 years. They have been suffering from Paki-bashing and bullying. Majority of them have been leaving schools with low grades. They have been leaving schools without learning their cultural and linguistic skiils. The result is that they do not know where they belong. They suffer from Identity crises. Now Muslim youths are victim of terrorism. Thousands of them are being searched in streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar without any trial."

But these self same individuals fail to mention it is their 'separatism' none integration mentality that brings on their problems. Immigrants that seek to become part of the society instead of trying to remain separate from it do not typically experience any of these conditions. So what is needed in any society is an excellent secular education for all and instruction of being a good citizen useful to society. The failure of such a good secular education leads to subway and bus bombings, attempts to blow up airports such as occurred in Scotland by a group of Muslim doctors, etc. These events alone should be enough warning to all that separate state supported religious schools must never be allowed. In addition, governments should pass laws forbidding the teaching and inbreeding of a lust for violence and destruction, greed, and hate in religious institutions, Mosques, Churches, etc., by religious leaders such as Priest, Imams, Muftis, etc.

CONCLUSION:

[1] Much religious education is counter-productive and leads to a breakdown in society, and a separation of people into small groups and caste each thinking itself better than its neighbor; whereas, what is needed is an excellent secular education designed to integrate individuals of many backgrounds and instruct them in the values of society.

[2] The real facts on 'bullying' which some use as a Red Herring to try and bolster the false case for separate state supported education has NOTHING to do with religion, but is <<" WHAT IS BULLYING?

Bullying can be defined as repeated and systematic harassment and attacks on others. Bullying can be perpetrated by individuals or groups. Bullying takes many forms, and can include may different behaviours, such as:
· physical violence and attacks
· verbal taunts, name-calling and put-downs
· threats and intimidation
· extortion or stealing of money and possessions
· exclusion from the peer group
Racially or ethnically-based verbal abuse and gender-based put-downs are also found in the bullying situation.
How prevalent is bullying?
· Studies in several countries have consistently shown that at least 15 per cent of students in schools are involved.
· About 9 per cent are victims.
· About 7 per cent bully others repeatedly.
· More students in younger grades are victimized.
· Boys are more likely to be bullies than girls.
Dynamics of Bully-Victim Situations
· A power differential exists between the bully and the victim.
· Bullies tend to confident, aggressive, and lack empathy for the victim.
· Bullies come from homes where there is poor supervision, and modelling of and tolerance for aggressive behaviour.
· Victims tend to be quiet, passive children with few friends.
· Victims do not respond effectively to aggressive actions.
· Bullying is often done so that adults are not aware of it.
· Victims are ashamed, and often don't tell an adult.
Research on Bullying
Professor Dan Olweus, the pre-eminent researcher of bullying among school-age children and youth, defines bullying as follows:

A student is being bullied or victimized when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other students (Olweus, 1993, p. 9).
A power imbalance is found at the heart of the bullying dynamic. A student who is stronger, more aggressive, bolder, and more confident than average typically bullies other students who are weaker, more timid, and who tend not to retaliate or act in an assertive manner. Sometimes older students bully younger ones, or upper year students bully new students. Sometimes bullies pick on students who are disadvantaged by being new immigrants or are from a cultural minority group. ...
It is a myth that bullies are insecure underneath their bravado. Research indicates that their self esteem is, on average, average or above average. It appears that bullies tend to come from homes where aggressive strategies to conflict resolution is modelled, although more research needs to be done on this connection.

Victims tend to be timid and, in the case of boys, tend to be physically weaker and less skilled than bullies. Victims tend to lack assertive responses to peer aggression, and they tend to be low on skills for making friends. They generally do not retaliate when they are picked on, so that they come to be seen as "safe" targets for bullying." [[Note, nothing about religion being its source]] .[source - BULLYING - Information for Parents and Teachers, retrieved from www.lfcc.on.ca/bully.htm on 5/28/2009]>>

To learn more, check out the following:

[1] religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Hi Everyone
Here is additional world news evidence to support what I have been saying.
Pakistan religious schools get scrutiny, By Mark Magnier
May 30, 2009, Los Angelos Times, retrieved at www.latimes.com/news/la-fg-madrasa30-2009may30,0,3711244.story?page=1&track=ntothtml on 5/30/2009]

The madrasas, schools that teach the Koran and little else, are suspected of nurturing extremism. Under U.S. pressure, the Pakistan government has pledged to reform the system.

Reporting from Akora Khattak, Pakistan -- The Darul Uloom Haqqania campus is a sprawling labyrinth of ashen buildings where young men in black beards and white skullcaps spend their days and nights on hard concrete floors learning all 77,701 words of the Koran. Some people call it the University of Jihad.

The fact that some of Haqqania's graduates go on to become Taliban fighters and suicide bombers isn't the school's concern, said Syed Yousef Shah, the head of the 3,000- student madrasa, or Islamic seminary.

"One person may become a journalist, another a driver," he said as he reclined on a pillow in a small meeting room in the school. "We can't control what people do afterward."

Yes, the madrasa gave the one-eyed Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar an honorary doctorate. And why shouldn't it? "We did it because he's smart, upright and has many distinguishing qualities," Shah said.

Under heavy pressure from the U.S., President Asif Ali Zardari pledged recently to reform the madrasa system, in a campaign against militancy that has included a Pakistani army offensive in the Swat Valley.
Most Pakistanis had not been too concerned about the burgeoning influence of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the frontier and tribal areas. But as militants have moved closer to the capital since a controversial deal in the Swat Valley allowed the imposition of Sharia, or Islamic law, the public has become increasingly wary of extremism. That could strengthen domestic pressure to reform madrasas, some analysts say.

Shah isn't worried; he's heard it before. He rattles off a string of past national leaders, including Gen. Pervez Musharraf, assassinated former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

"They all said they would change us," he said, wearing a gold watch and juggling two cellphones. "We are too strong, and it will never happen. This is just talk for the Americans."

Experts tend to agree. The madrasa curriculum and routine -- studying the Koran and other religious texts to the exclusion of much else, with a strong focus on rote memorization and strict obedience -- has resisted change for centuries.

The vast majority of Pakistan's estimated 20,000 or so Islamic seminaries are benign. Several hundred, however, teach extreme forms of Islam that experts say provide a training ground for militancy and jihad, or holy war. Haqqania, 30 miles east of Peshawar in North-West Frontier Province, is on that list.

In 1997, a telephone call from Mullah Omar asking for help sent several hundred of its students traveling through the Khyber Pass to Afghanistan to help Omar's Taliban forces capture the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif.

Reports that the entire school closed in support of the struggle were inaccurate, Shah said. "Smaller madrasas with 20 or 40 students closed," he said. "But with 3,000 students to look after, we couldn't shut down completely."

Rubina Saigol, an education specialist and human rights activist who did her doctoral thesis on Pakistan's textbooks, said extremism in the madrasa system is a concern. But the broader problem, she said, is that the system has the tacit support of the Pakistani military, which has viewed young extremists as potential recruits for its proxy war against India over Kashmir.

Until the military decides that the madrasas are no longer useful, she said, meaningful reform is unlikely.

"They've viewed these people as a parallel army," she said.

Although madrasas have had a role in churning out extremists, some experts said it's important not to give them too much credit for the discontent, militancy and anti-Americanism seen in Pakistan.

In fact, the roots of displeasure go far deeper, and are frequently closely tied to Pakistan's government, which is often corrupt and fails to provide security or basic services in the border region, creating a vacuum.

Furthermore, less than 2% of enrolled Pakistani students attend madrasas, most of which are not in the ultra- extreme camp. "The madrasas are a symptom, not the cause," said C. Christine Fair, an analyst with the Santa Monica-based Rand Corp. think tank.

Economics as much as fanaticism can be a factor in a family's decision to enroll their children. Most madrasas offer free room, board and clothing, attractive for large, impoverished families.

Saeed Ahmed, 29, said he realized how narrow his education was only after he left.

"My father worked at a madrasa and believed all you needed to know was the Koran," Ahmed said, dressed in a shalwar kameez and skullcap. "And we didn't have much money. Later, when he saw me struggle to start a company without math, basic business vocabulary, computer skills, he admitted he'd made a mistake."

Ahmed now helps finance a broader education for his four younger brothers who return the favor by assisting him in managing his liquefied natural gas company.


Shah, taking a pinch of snuff from a plastic bag, denied that the rigid curriculum of his madrasa fails to prepare graduates for the real world.

As evidence, he gestured toward a computer room with a few desktops that he said was accessible to the 3,000-member student body. It was locked.

Qaiser Mehmood Butt, a preacher and founder of the Jamia Sabeel-ur-Rehmat madrasa in Peshawar, which is among the few mixed-curriculum institutions in Pakistan, said reform by state fiat won't work.
A better approach, he said, would be to set up a handful of "charter" dual-curriculum madrasas. Once families start seeing the benefits of teaching English and other "elite" skills to impoverished students, they will pressure other madrasas to follow suit, he believes.

Madrasas don't teach students to be militants or attack Americans per se, Butt said. Rather, because their graduates emerge obedient, sheltered and narrowly focused, they're easily manipulated.

"I could go into a rural area right now, tell some young boy this small piece of paper is his ticket to paradise and get him to go to some place with a suicide bomb," he said. "If I tried that among city children exposed to so much more, I'd need a whole pile of certificates and they'd still refuse."

Shah said the cost of running Haqqania is about $220,000 annually. The money comes from donations and God, he said. They've never taken a rupee from the Pakistani or Saudi governments, he said, sitting beside a closet-size safe. Who donates? Just people, he said, holding up an inch-thick wad of cash he said had just arrived from a donor.

As many as 300 students as young as 6 sit cross-legged in long rows in each classroom on concrete floors covered by thin carpeting. The system doesn't encourage questioning, doubt or real understanding, critics say, until the highest levels.

Ten students apply for every four accepted, school officials said, and as many as 40 boys are crammed into small dorm rooms. Students wake at 5 a.m., pray until 7, then intermittently pray and study religious materials until as late as 11:45 at night.

"I like coming here," said Moheed Ullah, 19, a student. "It's a peaceful place."

Shah leaned back on his pillow, adjusted his stylish gray head scarf and spoke too about peace, and how pleased he was to receive guests and exchange ideas.

Then he was asked to verify reports that the madrasa endorsed a fatwa, or religious edict, in 1998 by Osama bin Laden to kill Americans. His face paled, the smile disappeared, and for the first time he seemed at a loss for words.

"I can't say if this is true or not," Shah said.

A few minutes later, he signaled that the interview was over. "You are our guest, you are most welcome," he said. "But you media must be fair, stop lying and spreading untruths."

[e-mail]

[iris89]

One Muslim posted the following nonsense about public schools in the UK.

“Muslim Children and Sex Education

Muslim parents teach their children to respect their teachers. From a very young age, we are taught that Islam teaches us that after our parents, our teachers are most deserving of respect.
It must be an extremely confusing time for the Muslim parent in Leytonstone, London. For up to 30 parents may face prosecution for withdrawing their children from school, disobeying the teachers in the school, simply to secure a decent moral upbringing for their children. The school had decided to have a week of lessons about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender history. Part of this was a special adaptation of Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet retitled Romeo and Julian as well as fairytales and stories changed to show men falling in love with men. Rather than filling the heads of impressionable boys and girls with fatuous drivel about gay penguins, schools should be ashamed of the fact that they are sending children out into the world barely able to read, write and add up properly. Muslim children are leaving schools without learning their cultural roots and linguistic skills.

The action was being taken against the parents as part of a policy of ' promoting tolerance'. So why not tolerate parents, who, for sincerely-held reasons, consider their children too young to be taught about gay relationships? This isn't education, its cultural fascism. A record numbers of pupils persistently played truant in 2006-07, with around 272,950 pupils persistently absent in 2007, missing more than 20% of school. We rarely see councils prosecute the parents of these persistent truants. Yet, the parents who removed their children as a one-off to protect their morality may be prosecuted!

If the local council does decide to go through with a prosecution, it would be in line with the government's approach to the Muslim community. Muslims who believe homosexuality is a sin would be labelled as extremists. Liberal totalitarianism is a growing phenomenon in Britain and the west in general but many people will be shocked that the school can override a parent's view of what's appropriate or inappropriate to teach their children.

This latest episode should be a wakeup call for Muslim parents. Muslim parents MUST explain our moral standards to schools and be prepared to take steps to protect our children’s morals and values from a growing agenda to impose liberal values upon them. This is an eye opening for those Muslim parents who keep on sending their children to state schools to be mis-educated and de-educated by non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

The solution of all the problems facing Muslim children is state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. Those state schools where Muslim children are in majority may be designated as Muslim community schools. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk”

This is total nonsense! Young children should be taught about sexual predicators that are out to misuse them. Lack of sex education opens children to becoming victims of lovers of deviant sex. In fact, I have written educational articles on the subject in an effort to let all know that deviant sex is just plain wrong and is to be avoided. Promoting of the Ostrich syndrome, of see no evil, hear no evil, and speak of no evil, just primes young ones to becoming victims of pedophiles and other forms of sexual deviants, your entire post is just anti-productive nonsense. Children must be educated with respect the facts of sexual deviancy so as to enable them to resist becoming victims of sexual deviants. Get real!

FIRST, Sodomy is wrong, but teaching about a wrong is to help prevent individuals falling into the wrong or becoming victims of sexual deviants. To this end, I have written an educational article on the subject as follows:

The facts on Sodomy, of which homosexuality and lesbinism are just two forms of same are as follows:

Discourse on Sodomy Always Having Been Wrong:

As another said, "Some want to live a lifestyle that is in blaten sin against God. No one can change their mind, except the Holy Spirit. Those who choose to live that lifestyle, will always refuse to hear the truth because they want to live in their sin. It has been that way ever since the fall of man in Eden." Which is a truth now playing out in this sinful world with respect to the modern sodomites that are bluntly displaying their ungodly ways by even wanting to "marry" their same sex sodomite partners in braking the law of God (YHWH). In the Bible, God (YHWH) gave into marriage Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, as these modern day sodomites want to have it. This fact, that a valid marriage before God (YHWH) is only a marriage of a man and a wife is clearly testified to at Genesis 2:22-24, "And Jehovah God buildeth up the rib which He hath taken out of the man into a woman, and bringeth her in unto the man; 23 and the man saith, `This [is] the [proper] step! bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh!' for this it is called Woman, for from a man hath this been taken; 24 therefore doth a man leave his father and his mother, and hath cleaved unto his wife, and they have become one flesh." (Young's Literal Translation; YLT). Clearly this scripture shows that a valid marriage as instituted by God (YHWH) is one between a man and a women and not between a man and a man or between a women or a women or for that matter anything else. This is clearly affirmed at Genesis 1:27-28, "And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them. 28 And God blesseth them, and God saith to them, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over every living thing that is creeping upon the earth.'" (YLT). Now, the Bible is clear throughout that a valid marriage before God (YHWH) is only one between a man and a women, so just what is it these sinful practicioners of Sodomy do not understand?

It should be clear that they are NOT recognizing the Bible as the only Standard given by God (YHWH) for what constitutes a valid marriage, but are resorting to the courts and legal trickery to work what is clearly obscene. As one person put it, "Truth is God's Word. If one refuses to except that, then fine. But remember this one thing. one day you will stand before YHWH at the Great White Throne Judgment. There you life will be exposed before the angels and heaven. The Word of God will be opened, and that will be your judge." This is clearly shown in the Bible at Romans 14:12, " so, then, each of us concerning himself shall give reckoning to God" (YLT). To practice the God (YHWH) forbidden practice of Sodomy is as Romans 3:23 states, "for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;" (American Standard Version; ASV); and 1 John 5:17, "All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (ASV); but a willful and defiant open practice of ungodly acts will NOT go unpunished.

Clearly the modern day practitioners of the sin of Sodomy who now want to defile God's (YHWH) institution of marriage by their unconscionable act of marrying man to man and women to women that they per 1 John 5:19, are under the control of the god of this system of things, "we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie; " (YTD) are under control of evil; and this is further shown at 2 Corinthians 4:4, ""in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn [upon them]. " (ASV). The Bible is clear on this as shown at All forms of illicit sexual relationships are clearly works of the flesh and the Apostle Paul said, at Galatians 6:18-19, "Now the work of the flesh are...adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness..." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). God does not view these unclean "works" of the flesh with pleasure no matter who may endorse them be he/she a high governmental officials such as is the case in the City of San Francisco or the State of Massachusetts. God (YHWH) however, looks with great displeasure on those who openly and willfully violating his law and purpose by marrying men to men and women to women which is not what God (YHWH) purposed. These works remain condemned by God as shown by the Apostle Paul at I Corinthians 6:9-10, "Know ye...the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God...be not deceived: neither fornicators,...nor adulteress, nor effeminate,...shall inherit the Kingdom of God." (AV). In fact is plainly recorded that God will judge all fornicators at Hebrews 13:4 which reads, "...God himself will judge those who traffic in the bodies of others or defile the relationship of marriage." (The New Testament in Modern English by J.B. Phillips; TNTMB).

The clear Biblical fact is God (YHWH) will punish those who practice illicit sexual relationships. This fact is made very clear by his actions in the past as shown by his destruction of the inhabitants of ancient Sodom for the practice of male with male and female with female which now is also known as Sodomy due to the well known sinful practice of sodomy among the inhabitants of ancient Sodom. Their sinful practice of sodomy was so salient that Moses wrote at Genesis 14:13 under God's inspiration, "...the inhabitants of Sodom were very wicked in the sins they committed against the Lord." (New American Bible, , St. Joseph Edition (Catholic Book Publishing Company); NAB). Their evil practice of Sodomy was so flagrant they even tried to have Sodomy relationships with materialized angles of God as recorded at Genesis 19:1-7, "The two Angles reached Sodom in the evening...Before they went to bed, all the townsmen of Sodom,...closed in on the house. They called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intimacies with them.'" (NAB). Because of their wicked action God destroyed the Sodomites as recorded at Genesis 19:24, "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom...brimstone and fire...out of heaven;" (AV).

In fact, God so detested the practice of sodomy he not only destroyed Sodom, but caused several Bible writers to specifically warn his followers against this practice. Moses wrote under inspiration at Leviticus 18:22. "You shall not lie with a male as with a women; such A thing is an abomination." (NAB), and the Apostle Paul wrote at I Timothy 1:9-10, "...for persons lawless and unruly,...fornicators, men who lie with males...and whatever other thing is in opposition to the healthful teaching." (New World Translation; NWT). Also, Hebrews 13:4 plainly shows that all illicit sex practices are condemned by God as follows, "...but sleepermongers and adulterers God will judge," (AV).

Therefore let no one deceive you--illicit sexual practices brings God's disfavor as shown by many passages in God's written work, the Holy Scriptures. This point is made clear at Romans 1:24-28, " Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves; 25 who did change the truth of God into a falsehood, and did honour and serve the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed to the ages. Amen. 26 Because of this did God give them up to dishonourable affections, for even their females did change the natural use into that against nature; 27 and in like manner also the males having left the natural use of the female, did burn in their longing toward one another; males with males working shame, and the recompense of their error that was fit, in themselves receiving. 28 And, according as they did not approve of having God in knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mind, to do the things not seemly;" (YLT). Rightly, as stated in the Bible at Ecclesiastes 7:29, "Behold, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many devices." (The Revised Standard Version: RSV). These works or plans of the fallen flesh are clearly identified, and Corinthians 6:13 states, "...God will do away with them in the end--but the body is not for immorality; it is for the lord...." (NAB). In addition, I Corinthians 6:18 warns all wishing to win God's favor to, "Shun lewd conduct." (NAB), since this sin is within the body; whereas, "Every other sin a man commits is outside his body." (NAB). Also, I Corinthians 7:2 warns us to avoid illicit sexual relations in the following words, "But to avoid immorality...." (NAB). The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Colossians warned at Colossians 3:5, "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence..." (AV).

Some practitioners of Sodomy try and justify their God (YHWH) defying wrong actions by saying that the Bible does not even mention homosexuality, but overlook reality. I think it's important to distinguish between "homosexuality" and same-sex ACTS. The Bible does not really address the former (which is a term invented by a 19th century German pyschologist), but it definitely deals with the latter. To use an analogy, the Bible doesn't mention "kleptomania" (a psychological condition) but it does prohibit the act of theft. Likewise it prohibits same-sex in both the new and the old testament with the first prohibition being recorded in approximately 1513 B.C.E. over 3,500 years ago, for details go to Leviticus and read the 18th. Chapter. In the new testament go to Romans the 1st, Chapter.

Given the above, the question of whether or not certain individuals are born with a genetic tendency to homosexuality or homosexual behavior is irrelevant from a Biblical standpoint. According to the Scriptures, all of us are born with an inclination to practice immorality of one kind or another. (cf. Gen. 6:5) This does not excuse the behavior, of course, anymore than a person giving into the temptation to rob a bank. People are responsible for their behavior.

No matter how one tries to justify or excuse ANY form of deviant sex, i.e., adultery, fornication, sodomy, bestiality, pedophilism, etc., The Bible shows it as just plain wrong. There is no excuse for any of it any more than there is for murder or genocide. Let's look at a few scriptures on the subject:

Matthew 5:28: "but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (ASV)

1 Corinthians 10:6: "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted." (ASV)

Galatians 5:6: "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (ASV)

Ephesians 2:3: "among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath -- as also the others," (YLT)

1 Timothy 4:5: "not in the passion of lust, even as the Gentiles who know not God;" (ASV)

James 1:14: "But every one is tempted, drawn away, and enticed by his own lust;" (The Darby Translation; TDT)

James 1:15: "Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin: and the sin, when it is fullgrown, bringeth forth death." (ASV)

1 Peter 2:11: "Beloved, I beseech you as sojourners and pilgrims, to abstain from fleshly lust, which war against the soul;" (ASV)

1 Peter 1:4: "whereby he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust" (Hebrew Names Version of World English Bible)

2 Peter 2:20: "but chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of defilement, and despise dominion. Daring, self-willed, they tremble not to rail at dignities:" (ASV)

1 John 2:6: "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the vain glory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." (ASV)

1 John 2:17: "And the world is passing away, along with its desires. But whoever does God's will remains forever." (The Complete Jewish Bible , Published by Jewish New Testament Publications, Inc.)

Of course the sinful modern day practitioners of Sodomy will take issue with God's (YHWH's) word, but they are usurping God's (YHWH's) position with respect to what is right and what is wrong.

SECOND, Islam tries to hide the reality that they are strongly involved in deviant sex practices. Now let’s look at an article that proves this fact:

MEMBERS OF ISLAM LIE AND POST MISS-INFORMATION COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE TO THE CONCEPT OF LEARNING AND EDUCATION:

Let's look at some actual cases of lying and miss-information by members of Islam:

CASE 1:

What member of Islam said, with respect a Practice of a Horrible Heathen Crime Against Nature.


<<<"[[4]]How do you know true christians don't do this? Is there anything in your bible that forbids this practice?
[[1]]What about for a girl who is deformed down there and has a need for this precedure? Is it wrong for her to have it as well?
[[2]]Do you realize that women who live in very hot climates like Africa, experience swelling in that area, making this type of operation necessary for them to live a normal life?
[[3]]I have never said that muslims around the world do not have cultural practices that have little or nothing to do with Islam.... it doesn't make it wrong or right based on that alone though.">>>

Now let's look past these lies and false accusations at the truth:

FIRST [[1]], There is no medical need for this procedure. The following article from an encyclopedia will clearly show this and the fact that it is bad for a women's health. Saying there are medical reasons for same is nothing but AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

SECOND [[2]], Your saying that,

<<<"in very hot climates like Africa, experience swelling in that area, making this type of operation necessary for them to live a normal life?">>>

Is AN OUTRIGHT LIE in no way backed by medical knowledge, see article below.

THIRD [[3]], You refuse to accept that many members of Islam practice this heathen horrible sex crime against young girls.

Is AN OUTRIGHT REJECTION OF REALITY which goes completely against the principles of education, learning, and the truth.

FOURTH [[4]], Genuine (true) followers do not practice this heathen horrible sex crime against young girls. The statement,

<<<" How do you know true christians don't do this? Is there anything in your bible that forbids this practice?">>>

Is nothing but a deceptive question similar to the one used by Satan the Devil in the Garden of Eden, AN OUTRIGHT LIE in the form of a question.

FIFTH, LIES LIKE THIS ARE UN-EXCUSABLE, and show that any religion whose members resort to same are being controlled by Satan the Devil per John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof." (American Standard Version; ASV).

Islam is sick as shown by a terrible heathen sex crime against nature committed by many of their members in Egypt and elsewhere.

Members of Islam Practice Horrible Heathen Crime Against Nature. Now let's look at just what this horrible crime against nature is:

Female genital cutting (FGC) refers to the excision or tissue removal of any part of the female genitalia for cultural, religious or other non-medical reasons. It is more frequently referred to as female genital mutilation (FGM) or female circumcision (FC).
The term FGC does not refer to gender reassignment surgery or the genital modification of intersexuals.

Different terms are used to describe the act of female genital cutting, but regardless of the terminology the same practice is being referred to. Opponents of these practices tend to use the term Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), whereas groups who support and practice this ritual tend to use the term Female Circumcision (FC), which is also considered an euphemism. Advocates of male circumcision argue that the term "female circumcision" results in unwanted associations between the two practices, while genital integrity advocates might refer to all child genital cutting as mutilation.
The expression Female Genital Mutilation gained growing support in the late 1970s. The word mutilation not only established clear linguistic distinction from male circumcision, but it also emphasized the gravity of the act. In 1990, this term was adopted at the third conference of the Inter African Committee on Traditional Practices Affecting the Health of Women and Children (IAC) in Addis Ababa. In 1991, the World Health Organization recommended that the United Nations adopt this terminology and subsequently, it has been widely used in UN documents.
Amnesty International and the World Health Organization most often refer to the practice as 'Female Genital Mutilation'.[1][2][3][4]
The use of the word mutilation reinforces the idea that this practice is a violation of the human rights of girls and women, and thereby helps promote national and international advocacy towards its abandonment. At the community level, however, the term can be problematic. Local languages generally use the less judgmental "cutting" to describe the practice; parents understandably resent the suggestion that they are "mutilating" their daughters. In this spirit, in 1999, the UN called for tact and patience regarding activities in this area and drew attention to the risk of "demonizing" certain cultures, religions and communities. As a result, the term "cutting" has increasingly come to be used to avoid alienating communities.[5]
In 1996 the UNFPA-sponsored Reproductive, Educative, And Community Health program coined the term 'Female Genital Cutting', observing that 'Female Genital Mutilation' may "imply excessive judgment by outsiders as well as insensitivity toward individuals who have undergone some form of genital excision.[6]

There are several distinct practices of FGC that range in severity, depending on how much genital tissue is cut away. Four major types have been categorized (see Diagram 1), although there is some debate as to whether all common forms of FGC fit into these four categories, as well as issues with the reliability of reported data.[7]

Clitoridectomy involves the removal or splitting of the clitoral hood, termed "hoodectomy" (or "clitorodotomy"), with or without excision of the clitoris, see Diagram 1B. The clitoral hood is the female prepuce, homologous to the foreskin of the male. This term was devised in The Sudan by the Anglo-Sudanese administration in 1946 in an attempt to promote this "milder" form of FGC instead of the more severe Type III, infibulation or pharaonic circumcision, that was widely practiced.[8] Although labeled Sunna by Islamic advocates of the practice, most MusliType III is the most severe form of FGC and is called infibulation or pharaonic circumcision (referring to the Pharaohs who were thought to practice this form). Infibulation involves extensive tissue removal of the external genitalia, including all of the labia minora and the inside of the labia majora, leaving a raw open wound. The labia majora are then held together using thorns or stitching and the girl's legs are tied together for two - six weeks, to prevent her from moving and allow the healing of the two sides of the vulva. Nothing remains of the normal anatomy of the genitalia, except for a wall of flesh from the pubis down to the anus, with the exception of a pencil-size opening at the inferior portion of the vulva to allow urine and menstrual blood to pass through, see Diagram 1D. This type of FGC is often carried out by an elderly matron or midwife of the village on girls between the ages of two and six, without anaesthetic and under unhygienic conditions.[11]
A reverse infibulation can be performed to allow for sexual intercourse (often by the husband using a knife on the wedding night) or when undergoing labor, or by female relatives, whose responsibility it is to inspect the wound every few weeks and open it some more if necessary. During childbirth, the enlargement is too small to allow girl thingyl delivery, and so the infibulation must be opened completely and restored after delivery. Once again, the legs are tied together to allow the wound to heal, and the procedure is repeated for each subsequent act of intercourse or childbirth. When childbirth takes place in a hospital, the surgeons may preserve the infibulation by enlarging the girl thingy with deep episiotomies. Afterwards, the patient may insist that her vulva be closed again so that her husband does not reject her.[11]
This practice is reported to cause the disappearance of sexual pleasure for the women affected, as well as major medical complications. Most advocates of the practice continue to perform the procedure in adherence to standards of beauty that are very different from those in the west. Many infibulated women will contend that the pleasure their partners receive due to this procedure is a definitive part of a successful marriage.
m clergy oppose all forms of female genital cutting as it is viewed as a social custom, rather than a religious practice. According to Dr. Sami A. Aldeeb Abu-Salieh at the Swiss Institute of Comparative Law:

Excision refers to clitoridectomy (removal of the prepuce and the clitoris) plus the partial or total removal of the labia minora, the inner lips of the vulva, see Diagram 1C. Type II circumcision is a more extensive form of FGC compared to Type I and due to the sewing together of the leftover labia minora epidermis, which contains sweat glands, a buildup of sweat and urine in the closed off space beneath this closure can lead to local or urinary infection, septicemia, hemorrhaging and cyst formation.[10] This type of FGC is also called khafd, meaning reduction in Arabic.

Female genital cutting is today mainly practiced in African countries. It is common in a band that stretches from Senegal in West Africa to Somalia on the East coast, as well as from Egypt (Who have just banned FGC[12]) in the north to Tanzania in the south, see Map. In these regions, it is estimated that more than 95% of all women have undergone this procedure. It is also practiced by some groups in the Arabian peninsula, especially among a minority (20%) in Yemen.[13]
The countries that practice FGC the most are Somalia, followed by Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, and Mali. Among ethnic Somali women, infibulation is traditional and nearly universal. In the Arab peninsula, Sunna circumcision is usually performed, especially among Arabs (ethnic groups of African descent are more likely to prefer infibulation).
Whilst FGC is widely practiced out in the open by African Muslims, it is practiced in secrecy in some parts of the Middle East. The practice occurs particularly in northern Saudi Arabia, southern Jordan, and Iraq, and there is also circumstantial evidence to suggest it is present in Syria, western Iran and southern Turkey.[14] In Oman a few communities still practice FGC; however, experts believed that the number of such cases was small and declining annually. In the United Arab Emirates and also Saudi Arabia, it is practiced mainly among foreign workers from East Africa and the Nile Valley.
The practice can also be found among a few ethnic groups in South America and India. In Indonesia[15] the practice is fairly common among the country's Muslim women; however, in contrast to Africa, almost all are Type I or Type IV, the latter usually involving the symbolic pricking of blood release.

Due to immigration, the practice has also spread to Europe, Australia and the United States. Some tradition-minded families have their daughters undergo FGC whilst on vacation in their home countries. As Western governments become more aware of FGC, legislation has come into effect in many countries to make the practice of FGC a criminal offense. In 2006, Khalid Adem became the first man in the United States to be prosecuted for mutilating his daughter.
Medical consequences
Among practicing cultures, FGC is most commonly performed between the ages of four and eight, but can take place at any age from infancy to adolescence. Prohibition has led to FGC going underground, at times with people who have had no medical training performing the cutting without anesthetic, sterilization, or the use of proper medical instruments. The procedure, when performed without any anesthetic, can lead to death through shock from immense pain or excessive bleeding. The failure to use sterile medical instruments may lead to infections and the spread of disease, such as HIV, especially when the same instruments are used to perform procedures on multiple women.[10]
Other serious long term health effects are also common. These include urinary and reproductive tract infections, caused by obstructed flow of urine and menstrual blood, various forms of scarring and infertility. The first time having sexual intercourse will often be extremely painful, and infibulated women will need the labia majora to be opened, to allow their husband access to the girl thingy. This second cut, sometimes performed by the husband with a knife, can cause other complications to arise.
The health consequences of FGC vary from region to region and from researcher to researcher. An in-depth analysis by Carla Obermeyer (2003) shows that past studies, plagued by "incomplete analysis" and "inconsistent numbers", have greatly overestimated the likelihood of serious medical complications resulting from FGC procedures (401). She notes that there is no significant statistically represented relationship between FGC and sexually transmitted diseases/infections, infertility or birth complications (402). Her study illustrates how the opposers of FGC may be relying on inadequate health data to justify their opposition, and instead more meaningful and relevant medical research needs to be conducted in order to help support the cessation of this practice.
A June 2006 study by the WHO has cast doubt on the safety of genital cutting of any kind.[29] This study was conducted on a cohort of 28,393 women attending delivery wards at 28 obstetric centers in areas of Burkina Faso, Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Senegal and The Sudan. A high proportion of these mothers had undergone FGC. According to the WHO criteria, all types of FGC were found to pose an increased risk of death to the baby (15% for Type I, 32% for Type II, and 55% for Type III). Mothers with FGC Type III were also found to be 30% more at risk for cesarean sections and had a 70% increase in postpartum hemorrhage compared to women without FGC. Estimating from these results, and doing a rough population estimate of mothers in Africa with FGC, an additional 10 to 20 per thousand babies in Africa die during delivery as a result of the mothers having undergone genital cutting.
In cases of repairing the damage resulting from FGC, called de-infibulation when reversing Type III FGC, this is usually carried out by a gynecologist. See also Pierre Foldes, French surgeon, who developed modern surgical corrective techniques.
A 12 year-old Egyptian girl, Badour Shaker, died in June, 2007 during or soon after a circumcision. She died from an overdose of anesthesia. The girl's mother, Zeniab Abdel Ghani, paid $9.00 [or 5 British pounds] to a female doctor, in an illegal clinic in the southern town of Maghagh, for the operation. The doctor tried to give her $3,000 to withdraw a lawsuit, but the mother refused.[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]

CASE 2:

Falsely claiming a homosexual web site briefly mentioned in a post on homosexuality and making a big thing out of nothing is a form of lying.

Let's look first at what was said,
<<<" I never back things that Almighty God (YHWH) disapproves of like gay marriages, the acceptance of gay men, and lesbians such as Bishop Fred Hiltz of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island does. You should well know that these things violate Romans 1:21-27, "because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due." (ASV). Nor do I agree with the Muslims at GayEgypt of which the "The Middle East Times" says "GayEgypt.com has emerged as a key source of information and communication for the gay community in Egypt." It's a shame that the Muslim community as well as the apostate (counterfeit) Christian community tolerate such wrong doing.">>>

Clearly shows that homosexuality was being addressing, a wrong, per Romans 1:19-28, "because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. 28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;" :" (ASV), but just to distort reality the posting of this item against homosexuality brought the following lying false accusation.

<<<"Porn site on a religious form? Why?">>>.

This is AN OUTRIGHT LIE as are all false accusations.

First, let's consider what porn is:

"PORN, noun: creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire [source - One Look Dictionary, www.onelook.com/?w=porn&ls=a ]"

"Pornography, sometimes shortened to porn or porno, is, in its broadest state, the explicit representation of the human body or sexual activity with the goal of sexual arousal and/or sexual relief. It is similar to erotica, which is the use of sexually-arousing imagery used mainly for artistic purpose. Over the past few decades, an immense industry for the production and consumption of pornography has grown, due to emergence of the VCR, the DVD, and the Internet, as well as the emergence of more tolerant social attitudes.

In general, "erotica" refers to portrayals of sexually arousing material that hold or aspire to artistic or historical merit, whereas "pornography" often connotes the prurient depiction of sexual acts, with little or no artistic value. The line between "erotica" and the term "pornography" (which is frequently considered a pejorative term) is often highly subjective. In practice, pornography can be defined merely as erotica that certain people perceive as "obscene." The definition of what one considers obscene can differ between persons, cultures and eras. This leaves legal actions by those who oppose pornography open to wide interpretation. It also provides lucrative employment for armies of lawyers, on several "sides."
Pornography may use any of a variety of media - printed literature, photos, sculpture, drawing, painting, animation, sound recording, film, video, or video game. However, when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction or reproduction of the act, rather than the act itself.[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography ]"

Obviously the mention of a homosexual site with respect its wrong is definitely not a portrayal of anything to arouse "erotic" responses in any one. So the accusation was nothing but AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

Second, No where on the GayEgypt site was there any "erotic" material, and the "roughest" item was only an obviously Arab man with a bare but not in any "erotic" pose that would qualify as porn. Everything was much more tame than many beaches in France.

Third, Here is what others said of the site - clearly identifying it as a homosexual site being run by members of Islam and not a porn site:


[1] Global Gayz...Gay Egypt
Today, there is only one site -- www.gayegypt.com -- left, and it is run from ... Being gay and Muslim is another conundrum for most Egyptian homosexuals. ...
www.globalgayz.com/g-egypt2.html - 69k - Cached - Similar pages

[2] [PDF]
Internet Filtering in Iran in 2004-2005 1
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Our first run of testing found blocking of 39% of sex education sites, compared with ... gayegypt.com, gay.ru, and gaytoday.badpuppy.com) as ...
[source - www.cambridge-security.net/pdf/ONI-iran-country-study.pdf]

[3] Cultural Struggle Finds Symbol in Gay Cairo
Internet sites such as GayEgypt.com had taken to describing "handsome youths" ... Gay Muslim groups in several countries have established support groups and ...
[source - www.sodomylaws.org/world/egypt/egnews49.htm]

[4] FEBRUARY 2002 - FRENCH PRESIDENT CHIRAC DENOUNCES EGYPT'S GAY ...
Already GayEgypt.com and its' satellite site Arab-Men.com are spreading the .... it was alleged that they had run an apartment for homosexual prostitution. ...
[source - www.gayegypt.com/january2002.html]

[5] Dissecting Leftism -- Large font site
Muslim against Muslim: "The latest reliable report confirms that on ...... of Terror," while the website GayEgypt.com has dubbed him the "Dr. Goebbels of ...
[source - jonjayray.blogspot.com/2005_07_01_archive.html]

[6] Prisoners of Sex
"When a Muslim dies, there is a required 30 minutes of prayer," she wrote to ... A Web site called GayEgypt.com called on Egypt's homosexuals to wear red on ...
[source - www.whrnet.org/fundamentalisms/docs/issue-prisoners-0612.html]

[7] Popular Pakistani Cross-dresser Pushing Boundaries [Archive ...
- [ Translate this page ]
Do you or others, specially our Muslim members, would like to find out if this behavior is .... Again, they run this site, they deserve to decide. ...
[source - sci.rutgers.edu/forum/archive/index.php/t-63125.html

[[Notice all those sites mention "gay" the euphemism for homosexual, not porn.]]

Fourth, Email from GayEgypt site administrator:

<<<"Many thanks for your email. re GayEgypt.com it's in large part an information site but it contains a very few photographs and a few stories which might be described as pornographic, certainly it's a website for adults 18+ only.

Please find the following links regarding essays on the Prophet Muhammad and early Islam from a Queer persepctive. The Quran, Gay Sex and the Gang Rape at Sodom. www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer1.html The prophet marries his former slave Zaid www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer2.html Ali becomes Muhammad's sleeping partner www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer3.html The Quraish suspect a relationship between the Prophet and his uncle www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer4.html The Prophet Muhammad and his relationships with older women. www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer5.html Why early Islam needed queer relationships. www.gayegypt.com/earlyislam.html Hope that helps. Best wishes Ali Asali for GayEgypt.com .">>>

It is unquestionably a site run by members of Islam as who else would be concerned about what the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did that might be considered "gay", but Muslim "gays."

Falsely accusing one writing against homosexuality of posting porn when what was posted was a homosexual site quite in keeping with what was being written about. Of course the accusation is NOTHING BUT AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

Why do members of Islam so lie? Simple, to cover up the salient fact that members of Islam are running one of the largest homosexual sites in the world - they can not stand the truth, but must un-justly denounce the messenger or bringer of fact.

CASE 3: This poster said the following lie,

<<<"I do not lie Iris and it's not very loving of you to continously insist that I would knowingly pass on false information as a liar.>>>"

We have already seen that he tells OUTRAGEOUS LIES in CASE 1 and CASE 2, so this statement is just an OUTRIGHT LIE ITSELF.

THIRD, Now let’s look at some more facts with respect deviant sex practiced in Islam from the very beginning.

ISLAM IS NOT CLEAN OF HOMOSEXUALITY AS SOME CLAIM, LEARN THE TRUTH:

They try to hide the fact that members of Islam are running one of the largest, if not the largest, homosexual sites on the web by falsely claiming a homosexual web site briefly mentioned in a post on homosexuality and making a big thing out of nothing is a form of lying.

Let's look first at what was said,
<<<" I never back things that Almighty God (YHWH) disapproves of like gay marriages, the acceptance of gay men, and lesbians such as Bishop Fred Hiltz of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island does. You should well know that these things violate Romans 1:21-27, "because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due." (ASV). Nor do I agree with the Muslims at GayEgypt of which the "The Middle East Times" says "GayEgypt.com has emerged as a key source of information and communication for the gay community in Egypt." It's a shame that the Muslim community as well as the apostate (counterfeit) Christian community tolerate such wrong doing.">>>

Clearly shows that homosexuality was being addressing, a wrong, per Romans 1:19-28, "because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. 28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;" :" (ASV), but just to distort reality the posting of this item against homosexuality brought the following lying false accusation.

<<<"Porn site on a religious form? Why?">>>.

This is AN OUTRIGHT LIE as are all false accusations.

First, let's consider what porn is:

"PORN, noun: creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire [source - One Look Dictionary, www.onelook.com/?w=porn&ls=a ]"

"Pornography, sometimes shortened to porn or porno, is, in its broadest state, the explicit representation of the human body or sexual activity with the goal of sexual arousal and/or sexual relief. It is similar to erotica, which is the use of sexually-arousing imagery used mainly for artistic purpose. Over the past few decades, an immense industry for the production and consumption of pornography has grown, due to emergence of the VCR, the DVD, and the Internet, as well as the emergence of more tolerant social attitudes.

In general, "erotica" refers to portrayals of sexually arousing material that hold or aspire to artistic or historical merit, whereas "pornography" often connotes the prurient depiction of sexual acts, with little or no artistic value. The line between "erotica" and the term "pornography" (which is frequently considered a pejorative term) is often highly subjective. In practice, pornography can be defined merely as erotica that certain people perceive as "obscene." The definition of what one considers obscene can differ between persons, cultures and eras. This leaves legal actions by those who oppose pornography open to wide interpretation. It also provides lucrative employment for armies of lawyers, on several "sides."
Pornography may use any of a variety of media - printed literature, photos, sculpture, drawing, painting, animation, sound recording, film, video, or video game. However, when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction or reproduction of the act, rather than the act itself.[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography ]"

Obviously the mention of a homosexual site with respect its wrong is definitely not a portrayal of anything to arouse "erotic" responses in any one. So the accusation was nothing but AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

Second, No where on the GayEgypt site was there any "erotic" material, and the "roughest" item was only an obviously Arab man with a bare but not in any "erotic" pose that would qualify as porn. Everything was much more tame than many beaches in France.

Third, Here is what others said of the site - clearly identifying it as a homosexual site being run by members of Islam and not a porn site:


[1] Global Gayz...Gay Egypt
Today, there is only one site -- www.gayegypt.com -- left, and it is run from ... Being gay and Muslim is another conundrum for most Egyptian homosexuals. ...
www.globalgayz.com/g-egypt2.html - 69k - Cached - Similar pages

[2] [PDF]
Internet Filtering in Iran in 2004-2005 1
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Our first run of testing found blocking of 39% of sex education sites, compared with ... gayegypt.com, gay.ru, and gaytoday.badpuppy.com) as ...
[source - www.cambridge-security.net/pdf/ONI-iran-country-study.pdf]

[3] Cultural Struggle Finds Symbol in Gay Cairo
Internet sites such as GayEgypt.com had taken to describing "handsome youths" ... Gay Muslim groups in several countries have established support groups and ...
[source - www.sodomylaws.org/world/egypt/egnews49.htm]

[4] FEBRUARY 2002 - FRENCH PRESIDENT CHIRAC DENOUNCES EGYPT'S GAY ...
Already GayEgypt.com and its' satellite site Arab-Men.com are spreading the .... it was alleged that they had run an apartment for homosexual prostitution. ...
[source - www.gayegypt.com/january2002.html]

[5] Dissecting Leftism -- Large font site
Muslim against Muslim: "The latest reliable report confirms that on ...... of Terror," while the website GayEgypt.com has dubbed him the "Dr. Goebbels of ...
[source - jonjayray.blogspot.com/2005_07_01_archive.html]

[6] Prisoners of Sex
"When a Muslim dies, there is a required 30 minutes of prayer," she wrote to ... A Web site called GayEgypt.com called on Egypt's homosexuals to wear red on ...
[source - www.whrnet.org/fundamentalisms/docs/issue-prisoners-0612.html]

[7] Popular Pakistani Cross-dresser Pushing Boundaries [Archive ...
- [ Translate this page ]
Do you or others, specially our Muslim members, would like to find out if this behavior is .... Again, they run this site, they deserve to decide. ...
[source - sci.rutgers.edu/forum/archive/index.php/t-63125.html

[[Notice all those sites mention "gay" the euphemism for homosexual, not porn.]]

Fourth, Email from GayEgypt site administrator:

<<<"Many thanks for your email. re GayEgypt.com it's in large part an information site but it contains a very few photographs and a few stories which might be described as pornographic, certainly it's a website for adults 18+ only.

Please find the following links regarding essays on the Prophet Muhammad and early Islam from a Queer persepctive. The Quran, Gay Sex and the Gang Rape at Sodom. www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer1.html The prophet marries his former slave Zaid www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer2.html Ali becomes Muhammad's sleeping partner www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer3.html The Quraish suspect a relationship between the Prophet and his uncle www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer4.html The Prophet Muhammad and his relationships with older women. www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer5.html Why early Islam needed queer relationships. www.gayegypt.com/earlyislam.html Hope that helps. Best wishes Ali Asali for GayEgypt.com .">>>

It is unquestionably a site run by members of Islam as who else would be concerned about what the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did that might be considered "gay", but Muslim "gays."

Falsely accusing one writing against homosexuality of posting porn when what was posted was a homosexual site quite in keeping with what was being written about. Of course the accusation is NOTHING BUT AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

Why do members of Islam so lie? Simple, to cover up the salient fact that members of Islam are running one of the largest homosexual sites in the world - they can not stand the truth, but must un-justly denounce the messenger or bringer of fact.

Here is proof that GayEgypt.com is a homosexual site not a porn site using links sent to me by web site administrator,

Email from GayEgypt site administrator:

<<<"Many thanks for your email. re GayEgypt.com it's in large part an information site but it contains a very few photographs and a few stories which might be described as pornographic, certainly it's a website for adults 18+ only.

Please find the following links regarding essays on the Prophet Muhammad and early Islam from a Queer persepctive. The Quran, Gay Sex and the Gang Rape at Sodom. www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer1.html The prophet marries his former slave Zaid www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer2.html Ali becomes Muhammad's sleeping partner www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer3.html The Quraish suspect a relationship between the Prophet and his uncle www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer4.html The Prophet Muhammad and his relationships with older women. www.gayegypt.com/wasmqueer5.html Why early Islam needed queer relationships. www.gayegypt.com/earlyislam.html Hope that helps. Best wishes Ali Asali for GayEgypt.com .">>>

Next will be presented as separate post some of the things said by GayEgypt with all 'rough' graphics stripped out.

First item of four of some of the things said by GayEgypt with all 'rough' graphics stripped out.

[1] THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD HAS A ""GAY" PARTNERSHIP WITH HIS FORMER MAN SLAVE - ZAID

There are four bases for believing that Muhammad may have had
homoerotic relationships ( possibly "platonic" ) which were either
tolerated or accepted by his contemporaries. This chapter deals with
the first.

Perhaps the closest of Muhammad's many close male relationships, one
which predated Ali's birth, was his love for his own slave Zaid.

Khadija, the Prophet's first wife, was already forty and
independently wealthy at the time of their marriage and though
beloved by the Prophet, was well past her youth. He was some fifteen
years her junior. It was moreover Khadija, not Muhammad, who first
proposed. The offer came secretly through her trusted slave Maisara
and her beloved quickly accepted. It was a marriage to a woman of
considerable wealth and influence. A wise decision for it gave him
the time, connections and influence he needed to pursue his destiny.



And as if the circumstance of the wedding were not unusual enough in
itself, Khadija presented Muhammad with a handsome sixteen year old,
Zaid, as a wedding gift. These two young men soon became virtually
inseparable - something akin to other famous heroic homoerotic
relationships such as that of the Greek fighters Achillees and
Patroclus.

Zaid had been captured hundreds of miles to the north in or near
present day Iraq and had been bought by Khadijah's nephew in the
slave-market at Ukaz and later gifted to her.

It was some time after Khadijah in turn gifted Zaid to Muhammad that
Zaid's family discovered him at Mecca. They approached the Prophet
to beg for his return and if necessary to pay whatever ransom he
might demand. Clearly they really loved him for they had travelled a
long and dangerous route across the Arabian desert to find him.

But when asked by Muhammad, what he wanted to do, Zaid announced to
his astonished family that there was no one with whom he would
rather be than Muhammad.

"I would not choose any man in preference to Muhammad. He is to me
both a father and a mother."

His real father, who had travelled hundreds of miles to rescue his
son, thought his boy had lost his sanity.

"You mean you will chose slavery above freedom, and above your
father and your uncle and your family ?"

But Zaid insisted he wanted to remain with Muhammad who now
intervened to terminate the painful quarrel. Walking with Zaid to
the Kaaba, even then the most sacred spot in Mecca, he announced
loudly, so that all could hear, that

"All who hear this, bear witness, that Zayd is now my son. He is my
heir and I am his."

But there is another even more astonishing twist to the story of
their relationship. When the prophet was in his fifties, Muhammad
decided to marry Zaid's wife Zainab bint Jahash. But his decision
seems to have been motivated by Zaid's own unhappinness with the
marriage and not by any Caligula like obsession with another man's
wife. Zaid was always much more close to Muhammad than to his wife
Zainab, and had only married her reluctantly.

Nevertheless, if it is really true that Muhammad had earlier
pronounced Zaid to be his son in front of the Kaaba, he was now
marrying his daughter-in-law - an unthinkable scandal even in
pre-Islamic Arabia. This would never have been accepted by his
followers.

A more credible explanation is that Muhammad, in that moment of
great emotional turmoil when Zaid had, perhaps against Muhammad's
own expectations, chosen him over his own family, decided to make a
very public declaration of his love for Zaid. It is probable that he
never mentioned the word "son" in the declaration but only that Zaid
would be his heir and he Zaid's - in effect announcing that they
were just as close as man and wife. Later, however, Muhammad's
biographers chose to cover this up by declaring that Muhammad had
actually adopted Zaid as his "son."



In later years, Zaid's loyalty and bravery was to prove invaluable
to both the Prophet and the success of Islam, especailly after the
death of Muhammad's wife, Khadija, and his influential Uncle, Abu
Talib.

On one ocassion he accompanied Muhammad by foot across the desert to
Taif, an impressive achievement for the Prophet who was by then
fifty and well past his peak of fitness. But there was a cool
reception for the tired party. Crowds pelted the unwelcome new
preacher with stones and Zaid had to grab and shield the Prophet
with his own body.

Soon afterwards Zaid became the first general to be appointed in
Muhammad's new army of Islam and died bravely leading a small force
against a vast Byzantime army at the battle of Moota in the year 8AH
(630). Muhammad's youngest wife Aisha was sure that had he not died
the Prophet would have appointed his former slaveboy as his
successor.

The wife of one of the Prophet's companions related that Muhammad's
appearance, on hearing the news of Zaid's death, changed completely
and that "a veil of sadness" descended. The Prophet's only
consolation was that his beloved Zaid had died a martyr and he told
those who came to console him not to worry.

"I see Zaid on a golden bed in Paradise."

It is intriguing that in the Quran ( The Believers 023.005 - 023.006
) we read that Allah asks men to guard their modesty from all except
their wives and their slaves. A sexual relationship with a slave
such as Zaid would not have been seen as a sin like adultery as it
posed no threat to a marriage. However, we might speculate that once
Muhammad declared Zaid as his heir and implicitly freeing him from
slavery, then any sexual relationship would have had to have been
either terminated or in the unlikely event of it continuing, then it
would have had to have been well hidden from wider society.

RETURN TO A QUEER HISTORY OF EARLY ISLAM - CONENTS PAGE

Second item of four of some of the things said by GayEgypt with all 'rough' graphics stripped out.

See Part Two of Answer to Nonsense

[iris89]

Part Two of Answer to Nonsense

[2] MUHAMMAD'S COUSIN ALI IS HIS CONSTANT COMPANION AND SLEEPING PARTNER.

Two unknown lovers (left) are from a work typical of the Islamic
Mughal Empire. Ali probably shared a bed with the Prophet from his
late teens but there is no evidence of sexual intimacy, though it's
a little naive to imagine nothing ever happened. As one historian
wrote " [Muhammad] often made [Ali] sleep by his side, and Ali
enjoyed the warmth of Muhammad's body and inhaled the holy fragrance
of his breath." Indeed, there is not one of Muhammad's fifteen wives
who continuously shared the same living quarters with the prophet
for as long as Ali. From his youth, until the prophet's death, Ali
was always living either in the prophet's home or in an adjacent
apartment.

This chapter looks at the second reason we have for thinking that
the Prophet Muhammad may have been queer. It is his relationship
with young men and in particular his bond with Ali which was
arguably the most important in the Prophet's life. It was certainly
more intense and longer lasting than any of his ten marriages.

( This relationship takes place years after the Prophet Muhammad's
marriage to his man slave Zaid - see previous chapter. )

The prophet surrounded himself mostly, though there were a few
notable exceptions, with young male converts. Indeed, most of them
were much younger than him; men in their teens and early twenties.
This is intriguing. More mature men would have given his movement
much greater respect by virtue of their seniority. But by courting
almost exclusively the companionship of younger men Muhammad
deepened the suspicions of their parents and elder kinsmen. He also
embarrassed and alienated the city elders and even many of his own
companions in both Mecca and Yathrib [ Medina ].

For instance, late in his life, Muhammad was often seen in the
company of Usama ibn Zaid, his former servant's son. Sometimes they
even shared a camel together, Usama mounted behind. But Muhammad's
companions were astonished when he appointed this teenager ( he was
then just eighteen years old ) to head an expedition against Syria
in 10AH ( 632AD ). The planned campaign was considered so difficult
that only the original muhajirin and ansar were employed and these
veteran soldiers were severely critical of the Prophet for placing
them under the command of an inexperienced and beardless youth.
Muhammad responded that

"Your criticism of his leadership is just like your earlier
criticism of his father's appointment to command. Yet it was God who
gave his father all the qualities necessary to command and he was
one of my dearest and closest companions. His son is also someone I
love dearly." [ Ibn Kathir ]

Not surprisingly little is written about what happened to the
expedition beyond the claim that it returned with a few prisoners
taken from a Red Sea port.

There are also many examples from more everyday events. In one
instance ten years before, when the fifty two year old Messenger of
God first arrived in Yathrib, after his narrow and arduous escape
from his assassins in Mecca, he chose to place both himself and his
baggage in the care of a young man - Khalid ibn Zaid. This seems to
have frustrated many of his older followers who insisted he stay
with them. Muhammad struggled a little to justify his decision,
responding somewhat feebly that "A man should never be separated
from his baggage."

A few weeks earlier, it was a group of Meccan elders who had plotted
Muhammad's murder. Not only had Muhammad been denouncing their gods
but several of them had "lost" younger members of their families to
Muhammad's new faith.

The sheiks hired cutthroats to burst into Muhammad's appartment late
one night. The assassins discovered his twenty three year old
beloved cousin, Ali, lying on the prophet's bed. Muhammad himself
had disappeared just a few hours earlier.

Historians claim that Ali was sleeping in the Prophet's bed as part
of a deliberate ploy to buy time. Muhammad's enemies, who were known
to be observing the house, would be deceived. They would, it was
hoped, peer in through a window and see Ali and assume, naturally
enough, that it was Muhammad asleep.

Though this could be an explanation, it is surprising that Muhammad
should have chosen a man less than half his age to play his double,
especially as it would have put his nephew at risk. As a relative
and as Muhammad's most trusted follower, Ali might easily have been
killed by less discriminating assassins. Especially since his
father, Muhammad's uncle Abu Talib, had recently died and therefore
any threat of retribution would have been greatly reduced.

As a decoy Abu Talib's youngest son was also a poor choice. Ali was
a strikingly handsome youth who would not easily have been mistaken
for the middle aged prophet. He was muscular and broad shouldered
with a straight nose and a beautifully formed mouth. The prophet
himself confessed that

"Looking upon Ali is worship," [ Ibn Asakir on the authority of
Caliph Abubakr ] and that "Ali would appear [even] to the dwellers
of paradise as a morning star." [Sawai'q muhari'qa.]

But let us return to the scene which greeted the assassins. The idea
that Ali was lying in Muhammad's bed as a "decoy" seems a little far
fetched. Moreover it ignores the fact that Muhammad frequently
shared a bed with Ali. As one historian wrote -

"He [Muhammad] often made [Ali] sleep by his side, and Ali enjoyed
the warmth of Muhammad's body and inhaled the holy fragrance of his
breath."

Indeed, there is not one of Muhammad's ten wives who continuously
shared the same living quarters with the prophet for as long as Ali.
From his youth, until the prophet's death, Ali was always living
either in the prophet's home or in an adjacent apartment.

Enjoying such a close and continuous proximity to the Prophet and
quickly aquiring an authority above those much older than himself,
Ali soon provoked jealousy and anger among some of the Prophet's
companions. On several ocassions Muhammad had to warn his followers
against any inclination to conspire against the young man.

Just after completing what was to be his final pilgrimmage in 632,
at a place called Ghadir Khumm on the road between Mecca and Medina,
Muhammad addressed an assembled crowd of many thousands. Holding
Ali's hand and raising it high, he declared that "Anyone whose
Guardian I have been has Ali as his Guardian. Oh God protect anyone
who protects him and opose anyone who opposes him. Ali is of me and
I am of him," and according to one source [ Ibn Abu Bukayr ] even
told his listeners that "No one settles debts on my behalf except
myself or Ali." Clearly the Prophet wanted to make everyone aware
not only that there was no one he trusted as much as Ali, but that
he and Ali were so close spiritually that he thought of Ali and
himself as a single spirit occupying two bodies.

When, only a few months later, Muhammad died, it was in the arms of
Ali. It was Ali who emerged from under a blanket, which covered them
both, to announce that the Prophet was dead.

It is not surprising that some of Muhammad's followers suspected
that there was more to this relationship than mere bonds of
friendship and cousinly kinship. One such instance occurred during
the siege of Tayef which occupied a strategic position some sixty
miles to the south east of Mecca.

Ali was returning from an expedition into the surrounding
countryside. Muhammad greeted him effusively and they both
dissappeared into Muhammad's quarters. The prophet didn't allow
anyone to enter and as hour succeeded hour, those outside began to
wonder what was happening and murmur among themselves. When Muhammad
finally emerged they challenged him, but the prophet explained to
his somewhat incredulous listeners that

"God himself had inspired Ali with Divine Secrets, and that it was
for this reason that he was engaged in confidential discourse so
long."

Muhammad managed a more convincing eloquence when he confessed his
love for his younger cousin.

"Ali and I, fourteen thousand years before the creation of mankind,
were one light. When Allah created Adam, he split this light into
two, one of which I am and the other is Ali." [Salman]

This romantic vision of the past and present is fascinatingly
similar to that described a thousand years earlier by Plato when he
attempted to explain the origin of homosexuality. In Plato's
Symposium the reason for the power of all love, heterosexual and
homosexual, is the need to be reunited with one's "other half." At
the beginning of mankind each person was composed of two halfs -
either male-male, female-female or male-female - until the gods cut
them all into two; thereby creating the powerful desire to be
reunited, manifesting itself in either heterosexual or homoerotic
desire.

Though Muhammad adored Ali as his "other half," he did not try to
stop his beloved when Ali asked his permission to marry a woman.
It's not clear, however, whether Ali's desire to tie the knot was
motivated more by his love for his bride to be or his love for
Muhammad, for when he finally married, of all the possible partners
he might have chosen, he chose Fatima, the Prophet's daughter. The
balance of probability is that the marriage was born out of
formality rather than infatuation, and was designed as a ritualistic
cement for Muhammad's and Ali's long-standing, but still passionate,
partnership.

The marriage, though it involved close relatives, did not offend
Quraishi values and similarly the discreet homoerotic union between
Muhammad and his beloved cousin Ali did not bring either the Prophet
or Ali [who later became Caliph] into any disrepute.

RETURN TO A QUEER HISTORY OF EARLY ISLAM - CONTENTS PAGE

Third item of four of some of the things said by GayEgypt with all 'rough' graphics stripped out.

[3] THE QURAISH SUSPECTED A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PROPHET AND HIS OWN UNCLE.

The third reason we have for supposing that the Prophet Muhammad was
queer is the unusual fondness of his uncle Abu Talib [ who never
converted to Islam ] for the prophet which seems to have been
regarded by others in the Quraish as homoerotic.

Though there is no evidence of any physical relationship, Muhammad
was more than willing to rely continuously on his Uncle's protection
and seems to have held a great and strong affection for him. Nothing
surprising in that.

But when the Meccan elders challenged Abu Talib, who by virtue of
kinship acted as Muhammad's protector, and requested him to
relinquish his protection of his nephew who so mocked their religion
and practices, they offered him another man "as a son" - who they
claimed was the most handsome man of all the Quraish. In other words
Mecca's sheikhs who had for years been in daily contact with Abu
Talib, himself a senior and respected elder among the Quraish, felt
they had a chance of convincing the man to turn a blind eye to his
own nephew's assassination in return for the gift of the city's most
handsome young man !

There seems a strong hint here that this was an attachment which
others, rightly or wrongly, thought was homoerotic. Otherwise, why
did they make Abu Talib such an offer ? There's no indication,
however, that Muhammad reciprocated in any physical way. But Abu
Talib's high status in Mecca and the deference, atleast until his
death, which Muhammad's enemies showed the man in respecting his
publicly proclaimed protection of the Prophet, suggests that a
"homoerotic" inclination, even if well-known, was no hindrance to
social status. And this may explain how the Prophet himself was
later able to win so much deep respect and admiration, despite his
sexual orientation.

RETURN TO THE QUEER HISTORY OF EARLY ISLAM - CONTENTS PAGE

Fourth item of four of some of the things said by GayEgypt with all 'rough' graphics stripped out.

[4] WHY EARLY ISLAM NEEDED QUEER RELATIONSHIPS.

EXPLAINING THE EARLY ISLAMIC TOLERANCE OF SAME-SEX SEXUALITY - OR
HOW BOTH "QUEER"* RELATIONSHIPS AND "QUEER"* MEN WERE VITAL TO
ISLAM'S EARLY SURVIVAL

There were few laws to protect the individual in sixth century
Arabia from assault, theft, abduction or other crimes. Free men
depended on their relatives, and slaves on their slave masters for
protection.

Unfortunately the followers of Islam, by rejecting the traditional
Meccan polytheist religion, often found themselves alone. Father was
divided from son, brother from brother, nephew from uncle. Those
Muhajirin ( emmigrants ) who followed the Prophet to Medina found
themselves separated from their families spiritually by their new
faith and physically by the very real divide of the desert. The
distance between the two cities being some fourteen days by camel.

Many of the young Muhajirin could not look to older influential
family relatives for protection. For them it was essential to bond
closely with another man. And many of them announced publicly ties
of "brotherhood" with their chosen "companions". Even Muhammad, soon
after arriving in Medina, announced that Ali was to be considered as
his brother - even though he was infact a cousin. But he was an
exception. Most others made partnerships with men who were not
otherwise related by blood.

The new Islamic society born in Medina was, like the Spartans of
ancient Greece, a highly militaristic one. Not only was there a very
real threat of attack from the majority of Meccans who still
rejected Islam and who were suspicious about Muhammad's long term
aims, but the necessities of economic survival also required
Muhammad to launch piratic attacks against traders from Mecca and
other "unfriendly" tribes.

The size of Muhammad's military expeditions were small, generally
much smaller than those of his enemies. With hand to hand combat
always the crucial aspect of any battle, the loyalty of one's
immediate companions was vital. As with the outnumbered Spartans
whose army of three hundred gay lovers fought with legendary courage
and self-sacrifice against the Persian army at Thermopylae in 480BC,
there is considerable evidence that Muhammad's soldiers also fought
in pairs. With other Arabian tribal armies this might have meant two
brothers fighting together or perhaps a freed man alongside his
former master.

The battles of early Islam, however, witnessed brother opposing
brother, nephew battling uncle ( Ali ibn Abu Talib famously faced
his uncle Amr ibn Abd Wudd in a duel during the siege of Medina )
and sometimes slaves fighting their former masters. So, the only
real options were bonds built from either deep friendship or love.

It would be fanciful to assume that either of these types of bonding
existed entirely without the other. Certainly we know that the
camaraderie was intense and that Muhammad often gave instructions
for soldiers to be buried in pairs. According to Ibn Kathir "he
would join in the same grave two men who had been close friends."
The symbolism of such joint burials suggests that these friendships
were far stronger and deeper than the camaraderie of the modern
parade ground and it is difficult to refuse the notion that many of
these men could have been lovers.

This must have been especially true as Muhammad's armies were
comprised predominantly of youths and young men whose enthusiasm,
ocassionally bordering on the reckless, played a roll in both
Muhammad's military successes such as at Badr and in some costly
mistakes, such as at Uhud when many of the Muhajirin were too
impatient to attack.

It was an extremely youthful army by any historical standard. Boys
could become soldiers once they turned fifteen. The polytheist
Meccans were contemptuous of Muhammad's recruits, dismissing them as
"young gazelles." The Prophet's young soldiers in turn ridiculed
their Meccan opponents as "bald old women like camels bound for
sacrifice."

Any military man knows that at such a young age attachments with
other young men in the face of extreme danger often borders on the
homoerotic and almost inevitably on a friendship deeper than that of
most marital love. It seems likely that in such circumstances,
homoerotic relationships would have been tolerated as an accepted,
even indispensable aspect, of a tightly knit military society.

While such homoerotic relationships were vital to early Islam's
political and military survival, they did not preclude those
involved marrying women and setting up a family as soon as the
opportunity arose. In fact many such men may have been bisexual or
even heterosexual to the extent that they may have prefered women as
sexual partners given the freedom to chose. However there is also
evidence that individuals who we would now call "gay" and who showed
no signs of sexual attraction towards women, also played a
significant role in early Islam.

The prophet himself relied on eunuchs or mukhannathun, men who
lacked heterosexual desires, to guard his own harem. There is no
evidence that these men were usually castrated although this became
normal practise in later Islamic history. However it seems that at
the time of the Prophet most were considered to be mukhannathun by
nature. Muhammad himself told one man that it was not up to him or
any man, but to God, to decide who was and who was not a eunuch,
reminding him that " the ink is already dry. So be a eunuch for that
reason or leave it alone." [ ya Aba Horairata, jaffa al-qalam bimaa
anta laaq fa'akhtasi 'alaa dhalika au dhar ] ( Bukhari, LXII 8 ).

Muhammad gave such men a unique freedom. They were allowed into such
normally private spaces where another man's wife might be unveilled
but they were also allowed, like other men, to enter the "men only"
sections of the mosque.

This special place for eunuchs in society is recognized in the Quran
-

" Tell all believing women to lower their eyes, and maintain their
chastity. They should never reveal any part of their body, except as
absolutely necessary. They should cover their chests, and should
maintain this modesty in the presence of anyone other than their
....[ immediate family members ]..., children, other women and male
employees who lack the normal defining traits of men [ ie men who
lack heterosexual desires ]." ( Surah 24:31 )

Only if, as happened in one notorious instance, the mukhannath was
exposed as a pretender secretly harbouring heterosexual desires,
could he be deprived of such privileges. Ibn `Abd al-Barr, refering
to an account related by A`isha, the Prophet`s wife, declared that
"the Prophet did not prevent that mukhannath from being in the
company of his own wives until he heard him describing the daughter
of Ghaylaan and realized that he knew too much about women. Only
then did he issue instructions that the man be barred from being in
the company of his wives."

The mukhannathun were highly valued as household servants and as
arrangers of marriages. Since they were the only men allowed into
close proximity of women regardless of whether or not such women
were family members, they alone could act unhindered as messengers
carrying proposals from one private space to another.

They were also given the exclusive right of appointment to certain
prestigious positions banned to other men. We know, for instance,
that atleast as far back as the twelth century, that it was only
mukhannathun who were allowed to guard the prophet's grave. A
tradition that was maintained until the end of Ottoman rule in the
twentieth century.

All above provided to prove beyond doubt the nature of the site; to wit, a Muslim homosexual site.

FOURTH, And still more including incidents of pedophilism by the founder of Islam:

Treatment of Daughters by Members of Islam:

It is unconscionable how many in Islam treat daughters:

CASE 1:

Egypt outlaws all female circumcision 2 hours, 17 minutes ago [6/28/2007]


CAIRO (AFP) - Egypt on Thursday finally banned all female circumcision, the
widely-practised removal of the clitoris which just days ago cost the life of a
12-year-old girl.

Officially the practice, which affects Muslim women in Egypt and goes back to the time of the pharoahs, [[Moslems adapted a horrible practice of pagans yet untruthfully claim they are not heathens, strange]] was banned in 1997 but doctors were allowed to operate "in exceptional cases".

On Thursday, Health Minister Hatem al-Gabali decided to ban every doctor and
member of the medical profession, in public or private establishments, from
carrying out a clitoridectomy, a ministry press official told AFP.
Any circumcision "will be viewed as a violation of the law and all
contraventions will be punished," said the official, adding that it was a
"permanent ban".

A survey in 2000 said the practice was carried out on 97 percent of the
country's women.

In the latest fatality, 12-year-old Bedur Ahmed Shaker was taken by her mother
to a private clinic in Minya, a town on the Nile south of Cairo, for the
operation. She died before she could be transferred to hospital.
Her mother accused the woman doctor of negligence, charging that her daughter's
death was linked to the anaesthetic and not the removal of the clitoris, for
which she had paid 50 pounds (nearly nine dollars). Police have arrested both
women.

There is no excuse for this horrible heathen crime against nature. Here is a brief exert on how terrible it really is,
<<<"Excision refers to clitoridectomy (removal of the prepuce and the clitoris) plus the partial or total removal of the labia minora, the inner lips of the vulva, see Diagram 1C. Type II circumcision is a more extensive form of FGC compared to Type I and due to the sewing together of the leftover labia minora epidermis, which contains sweat glands, a buildup of sweat and urine in the closed off space beneath this closure can lead to local or urinary infection, septicemia, hemorrhaging and cyst formation.[10] This type of FGC is also called khafd, meaning reduction in Arabic....

And,

Other serious long term health effects are also common. These include urinary and reproductive tract infections, caused by obstructed flow of urine and menstrual blood, various forms of scarring and infertility. The first time having sexual intercourse will often be extremely painful, and infibulated women will need the labia majora to be opened, to allow their husband access to the girl thingy. This second cut, sometimes performed by the husband with a knife, can cause other complications to arise.">>>

Yet members of Islam defend this horrible heathen crime against nature that they received from paganism much as do some apostate (counterfeit) so called Christians defend the pagan teachings of the Trinity and Christmas they got from heathen pagans. Let's look at an actual defending of it by a member of Islam and the counter to it.
<<<"[[4]]How do you know true christians don't do this? Is there anything in your bible that forbids this practice?
[[1]]What about for a girl who is deformed down there and has a need for this precedure? Is it wrong for her to have it as well?
[[2]]Do you realize that women who live in very hot climates like Africa, experience swelling in that area, making this type of operation necessary for them to live a normal life?
[[3]]I have never said that muslims around the world do not have cultural practices that have little or nothing to do with Islam.... it doesn't make it wrong or right based on that alone though.">>>

Now let's look past these lies and false accusations at the truth:

FIRST [[1]], There is no medical need for this procedure. The following article from an encyclopedia will clearly show this and the fact that it is bad for a women's health. Saying there are medical reasons for same is nothing but AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

SECOND [[2]], Your saying that,

<<<"in very hot climates like Africa, experience swelling in that area, making this type of operation necessary for them to live a normal life?">>>

Is AN OUTRIGHT LIE in no way backed by medical knowledge, see article below.

THIRD [[3]], You refuse to accept that many members of Islam practice this heathen horrible sex crime against young girls.

Is AN OUTRIGHT REJECTION OF REALITY which goes completely against the principles of education, learning, and the truth.

FOURTH [[4]], Genuine (true) followers do not practice this heathen horrible sex crime against young girls. The statement,

<<<" How do you know true christians don't do this? Is there anything in your bible that forbids this practice?">>>

Is nothing but a deceptive question similar to the one used by Satan the Devil in the Garden of Eden, AN OUTRIGHT LIE in the form of a question.

CASE 2:

An actual case, one of many, reported by Kevin Sites a most reliable reporter, Kevin Sites in the Hot Zone is news reporting for the new millennium - a nexus of backpack journalism, narrative story-telling techniques, and the Internet, designed to reach a global audience hungry for information.
His mission, to cover every armed conflict* in the world within one year, and in doing so to provide a clear idea of the combatants, victims, causes, and costs of each of these struggles - and their global impact. With honest, thoughtful reporting we'll strive to establish Kevin Sites in the Hot Zone as a forum for information and involvement. Users will not only learn about the scope of world conflict, but will find ways to be part of the solutions- through dialogue, debate, and avenues for action.

<<<"KABUL, Afghanistan - Eleven-year old Gulsoma lay in a heap on the ground in front of her father-in-law. He told her that if she didn't find a missing watch by the next morning he would kill her. He almost had already. Enraged about the missing watch, Gulsoma's father-in-law had beaten her repeatedly with a stick. She was bleeding from wounds all over her body and her right arm and right foot had been broken.
Read Full Entry (8078 comments)

Child Bride
Posted by Kevin Sites
on Mon, Mar 20 2006, 6:51 PM ET

Married at the age of four, an Afghan girl was subjected to years of beatings and torture, finally escaping to discover that within all the world's cruelty, there is also some kindness.

When I meet her at the Ministry of Women's Affairs I'm surprised that the little girl, now 12, is the same one that had endured such horrible suffering. She is wearing a red baseball cap and an orange scarf. She has beautiful brown eyes and a full and animated smile. She takes one of my hands in both of hers and greets me warmly, without any hint of shyness.

"She looks healthy," says Haroon, my friend and translator. I nod. But she looks older than her years, we both agree. In orphanages - first in Kandahar, then in Kabul - she has had a year to recover from a lifetime's worth of unimaginable imprisonment, deprivation and torture.

In one of the ministry's offices she sits in a straight-backed wooden chair and tells us the story of her life so far. She is stoic for the most part, pausing only a few times to wipe her eyes and nose with her scarf.

Her story begins in the village of Mullah Allam Akhound, near Kandahar.

"When I was three years old my father died, and after a year my mother married again, but her second husband didn't want me," says Gulsoma. "So my mother gave me away in a promise of marriage to our neighbor's oldest son, who was thirty."

"They had a ceremony in which I was placed on a horse [which is traditional in Afghanistan] and given to the man."

Because she was still a child, the marriage was not expected to be sexually consummated. But within a year, Gulsoma learned that so much else would be required of her that she would become a virtual slave in the household.

At the age of five, she was forced to take care of not only her "husband" but also his parents and all 12 of their other children as well.

Though nearly the entire family participated in the abuse, her father-in-law, she says, was the cruelest.

"My father-in-law asked me to do everything - laundry, the household chores - and the only time I was able to sleep in the house was when they had guests over," she says. "Other than that I would have to sleep outside on a piece of carpet without even any blankets. In the summer it was okay. But in the winter a neighbor would come over and give me a blanket, and sometimes some food."

When she couldn't keep up with the workload, Gulsoma says, she was beaten constantly.

Gulsoma's scars

"They beat me with electric wires," she says, "mostly on the legs. My father-in-law told his other children to do it that way so the injuries would be hidden. He said to them, 'break her bones, but don't hit her on the face.'"

There were even times when the family's abuse of Gulsoma transcended the bounds of the most wanton, sadistic cruelty, as on the occasions when they used her as a human tabletop, forcing her to lie on her stomach then cutting their food on her bare back.

Gulsoma says the family had one boy her age, named Atiqullah, who refused to take part in her torture.

"He would sneak me food sometimes and when my mother-in-law told him to find a stick to beat me, he would come back say he couldn't find one," she says. "He would try to stop the others sometimes. He would say 'she is my sister, and this is sinful.' Sometimes I think about him and wish he could be here and I wish I could have him as my brother."

One evening, Gulsoma says, when her father-in-law saw the neighbor giving her food and a blanket, he took them away and beat her mercilessly. Then, she says, he locked her in a shed for two months.

"I would be kept there all day," she says, "then at night they would let me go the bathroom and I would be fed one time each day. Most of the time it was only bread and sometimes some beans."

She says every day she was locked in the shed, she wished and prayed that her parents would come and take her away. Then she would remember that her father was dead and her mother was gone.

But Gulsoma had an inner strength even her father-in-law couldn't comprehend.

"When he came to the shed he kept asking me, 'Why don't you die? I imprisoned you, I give you less food, but still you don't die.'"

But it wasn't for lack of trying. Gulsoma said when her father-in-law finally let her out of the shed, he bound her hands behind her back and beat her unconscious. She says he revived her by pouring a tea thermos filling with scalding water over her head and her back.

"It was so painful," she says, dabbing her eyes with her scarf and sniffling for a moment. "I was crying and screaming the entire time."

Five days later, she says, her father in law gave her a vicious beating when his daughter's wristhingych went missing.

"He thought I stole it," she says, "and he beat me all over my body with his stick. He broke my arm and my foot. He said if I didn't find it by the next day, he would kill me."

She crawled away that night and hid under a rickshaw. When the rickshaw driver found Gulsoma, broken and bleeding, he listened to her story and took her to the police. She was hospitalized immediately.

"The doctor at the hospital who treated me said, 'I wish I could take you to the village square and show all the people what happened to you, so no one would ever do something like this again,'" Gulsoma says.

It took her a full month to recover from her last beating. But the fear and psychological trauma may never go away.

"I was happy to have a bed and food at the hospital," she says. "But I was thinking that when I get better they will give me back to the family."

However, Gulsoma says when the police questioned the family, the father-in-law lied and tried to tell them she had epilepsy and had fallen down and hurt herself. But the neighbor who had helped Gulsoma confirmed the story of her beatings and torture.

The police arrested her father-in-law and "husband." They told her, she says, they would keep them in jail unless she asked for their release.

"Everyone was crying when they heard my story," Gulsoma says.

Gulsoma says she stayed at an orphanage in Kandahar, but was the only girl in the facility. Eventually, her story was brought to the attention of the Ministry of Women's Affairs.

The toll of torture

Gulsoma was then brought to a Kabul orphanage, where she lives today. She takes off her baseball cap and shows us a bald spot, almost like a medieval monk's tonsure, on the crown of her head where she was scalded.

She then turns her back and raises her shirt to reveal a sad map of scar tissue and keloids from cuts, bruises and the boiling water.

Haroon and I look at each other with disbelief. Her life's tragic story is etched upon her back.

Yet she continues to smile. She doesn't ask for pity. She seems more concerned about us as she reads the shock on our faces.

"I feel better now," she says. "I have friends at the orphanage. But every night I'm still afraid the family will come here and pick me up."

Gulsoma also says that when the sun goes down, she sometimes begins to shiver involuntarily - a reaction to the seven years of sleeping outdoors, sometimes in the bitter cold of the desert night.

She says she believes there are other girls like her in Kandahar, maybe elsewhere in Afghanistan, and that she wants to study human rights and one day go back to help them.

As we walk outside to take some pictures, I ask her if, after all she's been through, she thinks it will be harder to trust, to believe that there are actually good people in the world.

"No," she says, quickly.

"I didn't expect anyone would help me but God. I was really surprised that there were also nice people: the neighbor, the rickshaw driver, the police," she says. "I pray for those who helped release me."

Looking directly into the camera, she smiles as if nothing bad had ever happened to her in her entire life.

"I think that all people are good people," she says, "except for those that hurt me."

SUPPORT GULSOMA

To learn more about how you can help Gulsoma and other children in need in Afghanistan, click here, hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs3046?rf=248, hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs3046 ">>>

But child brides are nothing new for Islam. Even their founder had a child bride of 6 years old and consummated it when she was just 9 years old - at the first bleed. Her name was Aisha.

CONCLUSION:

Any Muslim who sheds crocodile tears over sex education is public schools is nothing short of being a hypocrite.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

ADDENDUM – TO THOSE IN ISLAM OPPOSING SEX EDUCATION AND BEING REALISTIC:

Some misguided ones rail against sex education in schools, but overlook the unfortunate reality with regards to its needs. One North American expert, Jeanne Phillips, in her column Dear Abby said in response to a letter she received the following with the reader’s letter first:

“Reader’s letter:

Dear Abby: My daughter, age 15, was just diagnosed with the herpes virus, and she is devastated by the news. I had cautioned her to wait until she was older to become sexually active because I understand that decisions made in haste cannot be unmade and some – as in this case – carry lifelong consequences. I also know that many, if not all, teenage girls do not cope very well with all the baggage that goes along with having sex.

Besides having to deal with a lifelong contagious disease and the possibility of infecting someone else, she has to deal with her irresponsible boyfriend who is threatening to tell people that they are infected and it’s all her fault.

Please tell me what I can do to protect my daughter from further harm. And please caution other teens about the risks of unprotected sex while letting them know that moms and dads really DO know what is best for them.

From a Devastated Mom in Ohio

Dear Mom, from Jeanne Phillips:

Because there have been financial cutbacks in education, comprehensive sex education classes are being – and have been – eliminated. I publish a booklet, “What Every Teen Should Kiow,” that is frank, informative and answers many of the questions teens ask about drugs, alcohol, and sex.

It can be ordered by sending your name and address, plus check or money order for $6 (US funds) to Dear Abbey, Teen Booklet, POB 447, Mount Morris, IL 61054-0447. Shipping and handling are included in the price.

You asked me how to protect your daughter now that her boyfriend is threatening to say that is all her fault. Much as you might wish to, you can’t muzzle the young man. You can have a chat with his parents and let them impress upon their son how unwise that kind of slander would be for both of them.

And that’s what I’m advising you to do.” [source – Dear Abby column appearing in many newspapers]

So as can readily be seen, sex education unfortunately is quite necessary in all schools both public and private, and that any one railing against it is doing a great disservice to both the children and all concerned.

As I told one uninformed Islamic opponent of sex education, “Young children should be taught about sexual predicators that are out to misuse them. Lack of sex education opens children to becoming victims of lovers of deviant sex. In fact, I have written educational articles on the subject in an effort to let all know that deviant sex is just plain wrong and is to be avoided. Promoting of the Ostrich syndrome, of see no evil, hear no evil, and speak of no evil, just primes young ones to becoming victims of pedophiles and other forms of sexual deviants, your entire post is just anti-productive nonsense. Children must be educated with respect the facts of sexual deviancy so as to enable them to resist becoming victims of sexual deviants. Get real!”

Also, I highly recommend one book for all young people and their parents, “Questions Young People Ask – Answers That work,” published by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.

And as brought out by a former state senator in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Robert A. Hall:

<<”I'm Tired" by Robert A. Hall

… I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day
I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and
daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims rioting over some slight
offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't
"believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning
teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the
genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and
Shari'a law tells them to.

…

I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must
let Saudi Arabia use our oil money to fund mosques and madrassa Islamic
schools to preach hate in America, while no American group is allowed to
fund a church, synagogue, or religious school in Saudi Arabia to teach love
and tolerance.

…

I'll let myself be subjected to all the humiliation and abuse that was
heaped on terrorists at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, and the critics can let
themselves be subject to captivity by the Muslims who tortured and beheaded
Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine
Lt. Col. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the
blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in Iraq, or the
Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia, because the girls
were Christian. Then we'll compare notes. British and American soldiers are
the only troops in history that civilians came to for help and handouts,
instead of hiding from in fear.
[source - Robert A. Hall is a Marine Vietnam veteran who served five terms in the
Massachusetts State Senate.]

It is high time that all look at reality instead of railing against imaginary things and feeling they are better than others and should have special treatment instead of assimilating into the real society of the world.


To learn more, check out the following:

[1] religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Recent Results of Islamic Education Reported By Associated Press:

Analysis: Jakarta blasts show hotel weaknesses, Associated Press, retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/ap_on_re_as/as_indonesia_bombings_analysis on 7/17/2009]

By CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Writer Chris Brummitt, Associated Press Writer – Fri Jul 17, 2:49 pm ET
JAKARTA, Indonesia – Twin hotel suicide bombings in Indonesia on Friday exposed new security weaknesses in an industry increasingly in the cross-hairs of terrorists — and pointed to evolving tactics by the militants.
By posing as guests and then checking into one of the hotels with explosives that were then assembled into bombs in the privacy of a room, the terrorists were apparently able to evade the metal detectors and vehicle checks put in place to ward off attackers.
Expensive X-ray machines, devices that detect explosives and intrusive searches of guest luggage may be the only way to stop a repeat attack, but they come at a price: making properties that are supposed to be welcoming to weary travelers feel like prisons.
"The authorities are not opposed to this, because they worry about the effect of the attacks, but hotel authorities and the tourist industry is a bit reluctant because they don't want the hotels to look like bunkers," said Paul Wilkinson, director of the Center for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at the University of St Andrews in Scotland. "But I think the more attacks we have of this kind, the more hotels will have to think about improving the protection."
The suicide blasts in restaurants at the J.W. Marriott and Ritz-Carlton hotels in the heart of the capital, Jakarta, were the first in Indonesia in four years, showing the tenacity of terrorists despite a widely praised crackdown in recent years.
They came nine days after the re-election of a U.S.-friendly president in the world's most populous Muslim-majority nation that furthered its reputation as a beacon of secular democracy in the Islamic world.
Suspicion has already fallen on the Jemaah Islamiyah terror network and its allies — especially Noordin Top, a Malaysian engineer who heads a particularly violent offshoot of the group.
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute said in a paper released Thursday that tensions in Jemaah Islamiyah's leadership and the release of former members from prison "raise the possibility that splinter factions might now seek to re-energize the movement through violent attacks" against Western targets. It said, however, the possibility remained low.
At its peak, Jemaah Islamiyah was believed to have a network of several hundred members across Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Australia. They received military training and were motivated by a desire to establish an Islamic state in the region.
The most dangerous members were the more than 60 Indonesians and Malaysians who traveled to Afghanistan in the late 1980s and early 1990s to fight the Soviet army or attend al-Qaida training camps.
In 2003, members of the group attacked the Marriott in Jakarta with a car bomb that a suicide bomber drove close to the lobby and detonated, killing 12 people.
Islamic militants have carried out at least seven other major attacks on hotels around the world since then, killing more than 380 people and wounding hundreds more. Hotels are targeted because they are often high-profile Western symbols and are gathering places for foreigners.
The first Marriott blast — a year after 202 people, mostly foreigners, were killed in attacks on restaurants on the tourist island of Bali — led to tightened security measures at hotels, offices and shopping malls in Jakarta.
As they are in Pakistan and other countries with a history of terrorist attacks, cars are searched before they get close to the lobby and guests either walk through a metal detector or are checked with a wand.
But even if those measures are carried out strictly, smuggling in bomb-making components and explosives in luggage would likely get around them, said Jakarta-based security consultant Ken Conboy.
Militants in Pakistan and Afghanistan responded to greater physical security by launching coordinated attacks: one group attacks the perimeter security with a suicide blast or small-arms attack, while another follows and attempts to strike the hotel.
In November, militants laid siege to the Taj Mahal hotel in the Indian city of Mumbai for three days. Some reports suggested they possibly stayed at the hotel before to learn its floor plan.
"People around the world can look at what others do and mirror them, they can analyze, and then they can create a copycat attack," said defense analyst Paul Beaver, former editor at Jane's Defense Weekly and an adviser to the British Parliament on security matters

[iris89]

REALITY TIME, MUSLIMS CONSIDER WESTERN EDUCATION A SIN, BUT THEIRS LEADS TO VIOLENCE AND A SUPPRESION OF FREEDOM OF OTHERS, SEE REALITY:

Nigerians battle militants, 4,000 people flee, Associated Press, retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090729/ap_on_re_af/af_nigeria_violence on 7/29/2009 ]

ABUJA, Nigeria - A Nigerian official says 4,000 people have fled their homes in the northern city of Maiduguri as troops and Islamist militants fight gunbattles for a fourth day.
The report comes a day after President Umaru Yar'Adua insisted the military had won control of the area.
National Emergency Management Agency spokesman Apollus Jediel says about 1,000 people fled their homes in Maiduguri on Wednesday alone. His agency is urging state governments to send relief goods to help the displaced people.

Militants seeking to impose Islamic Shariah law throughout this multi-religious country attacked a police station in Bauchi state on Sunday. The violence quickly spread to three other states.

Scores of people have been killed in the violence. Police say most of the dead are militants.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
ABUJA, Nigeria (AP) - Troops exchanged fire with Islamic militants in northern Nigeria on Wednesday, fighting that prompted many people to flee their homes, a witness said.

The report came a day after President Umaru Yar'Adua insisted the military had the situation under control.
Olugbenga Akinbule, a local journalist, said he saw fighting Wednesday morning outside the suspected hideout of a radical Muslim leader accused of orchestrating three days of violence in Africa's most populous nation. He also said more people in the city of Maiduguri were fleeing, in addition to 3,000 people he said Tuesday had been displaced.

The military had surrounded the Islamic camp on Tuesday. Government officials did not answer calls seeking information on Wednesday.

Islamic militants attacked a police station in northern Nigeria on Sunday, sparking the worst violence Nigeria has seen in months and leaving at least 55 people dead over the next few days, according to police.
Maiduguri, capital of Borno state, has been the epicenter of the dayslong violence. Authorities imposed curfews Tuesday night and security forces poured onto the streets to quell a wave of militant attacks against police.

"This situation is being brought under control," Yar'Adua told reporters Tuesday as he appealed for calm.
Nigeria's 140 million people are nearly evenly divided between Christians, who predominate in the south, and primarily northern-based Muslims. Shariah was implemented in 12 northern states after Nigeria returned to civilian rule in 1999 following years of oppressive military regimes. More than 10,000 Nigerians have died in sectarian violence since then.

The militants oppose western education and seek a harsh interpretation of Islamic Shariah law in northern Nigeria.

Yet at the heart of the Islamic insurgency that sparked this week's violence is dire poverty and political maneuvering - not religion. The attacks on police have been committed by frustrated, unemployed youths and orchestrated by religious leaders and politicians who manipulate them to retain power.

Nigeria should be wealthy due to its prodigious oil reserves, but corruption and inefficiency have left many people in poverty. Despite promises of reform, Yar'Adua's government, like previous Nigerian governments, has failed to deliver even basic services like running water, electricity and health care.

Late Tuesday, the army sent armored vehicles to a residential district in Maiduguri that is believed to be a stronghold of an Islamic sect behind the violence. Officers said militant leader Ustaz Mohammed Yusuf was thought to be holed up in one of the houses.

As army vehicles approached and opened fire, sect members fired back, soldiers said. An Associated Press reporter in the area saw smoke billowing above the homes.

The radical sect behind the latest violence is known by several different names, including Al-Sunna wal Jamma, or "Followers of Mohammed's Teachings" in Arabic, and "Boko Haram," which means "Western education is sin" in the local Hausa dialect.

Some Nigerian officials have referred to the militants as Taliban, although the group has no known affiliation with Taliban fighters in Afghanistan.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

See What Muslim Education Leads To:

Rights group: probe death of Nigeria sect leader, Associated Press, retrieved from news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090731/ap_on_re_af/af_nigeria_violence;_ylt=Aurx8Y4WfNpOFrA3in5dkDd0fNdF on 7/32/2009 ]

By NJADVARA MUSA, Associated Press Writer Njadvara Musa, Associated Press Writer - 2 hrs 17 mins ago
MAIDUGURI, Nigeria - An international human rights group called Friday for an immediate investigation into the fatal shooting in police custody of a radical Islamist leader blamed for instigating days of clashes between his followers and government forces.
Nigerian officials said Mohammed Yusuf, the leader of the sect some call the Nigerian Taliban, was killed after being captured Thursday night at the end of a four-day manhunt.

…

Officials imposed partial Shariah in much of the north but Boko Haram members were increasingly angry that full Islamic law had not been implemented, especially the law's demand for a social welfare system helping poor people. The militants attacked police stations, churches, prisons and government buildings in a wave of violence that began Sunday in Borno and quickly spread to three other northern states.

…

A university graduate who spoke excellent English, Yusuf had discounted Darwinism, claimed the world cannot be round because the Koran does not say that and credited Allah with creating rain.

…

So as can be seen, what Muslim education results in, including the rejection that the earth is round because the Bible knockoff the Qur’an does not say it is round as does the Bible from which the false Prophet Muhammad got most of his information from without giving it credit.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Reality Check of Today on the Outcome of Two Types of Education

Compare the results of education Muslim and Jewish and note the differences:
Jews and Muslims

(an interesting point of view and well worth the read.)

The global Islamic population is approximately
(1,200,000,000) ONE-BILLION TWO-HUNDRED MILLION
or 20% of the world's population.


They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfoo

Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat:
1990 - Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewai

Economics: (zero)

Physics: (zero)

Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad



TOTAL: 7 (SEVEN)

________________________________________________________

The global Jewish population is approximately
(14,000,000) -- Only FOURTEEN MILLION
Or about 0.02% of the world's population.


They have received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pa sternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin

Physics:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - William Howard Stein
1973 - Brian David Joseph son
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1989 - Sidney Altman
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1995 - Martin Perl
2000 - Alan J. Heeger

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Mil ton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel

Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis

TOTAL: 129 (ONE HUNDRED TWENTY NINE !!!)


The Jews are NOT promoting brain washing children in military training
camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum
deaths of Jews and other non Muslims !

The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics, or blow
themselves up in German restaurants. There is NOT one single Jew
that has destroyed a church. There is NOT a single Jew that protests
by killing people.

The Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and
death to all the Infidels.

Perhaps the world's Muslims should consider investing more in
standard education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems.

Muslims must ask 'what can they do for humankind' before they demand
that humankind respect them.

Regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel
and the Palestinians and Arab neighbors, even if you believe there is more
culpability on Israel's part, the following two sentences really say it all:

" If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be
no more Israel !" -- Benjamin Netanyahu

Your Friend in Christ Iris89