Truth Can Be Very Different From Common Belief Wit

[iris89]

Truth Can Be Very Different From Common Belief With Respect Religious Items:

Here is an interesting item from an ABC news show:

Jesus Christ May Not Have Died on Cross
No Evidence in Ancient Sources Backs Up Defining Symbol of Christianity, Scholar Says, By RUSSELL GOLDMAN [source – retrieved from abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130&page=1 on 7/03/2010]
For 2,000 years the crucifix has been a potent symbol of both Jesus Christ's death and Christianity. Now one Swedish theologian says that despite the crucifix's proliferation in art and literature, there is scant evidence in the Bible or other ancient sources to indicate that Christ was killed on a cross.
Gunnar Samuelsson, an evangelical preacher and theologian, says he spent three years combing thousands of ancient texts to research his recently completed 400-page doctoral thesis "Crucifixion in Antiquity."
What he discovered, he said, "came as a shock." While there were numerous references to "suspension devices" used for executions at the time of Christ's death, he could find no explicit references to the classic T-shaped cross.
"There is no distinct punishment called 'crucifixion,' no distinct punishment device called a 'crucifix' anywhere mentioned in any of the ancient texts including the Gospels," he told ABCNews.com.
Samuelsson devoutly believes the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, but says for generations people have misinterpreted and mistranslated the Greek word "stauros" to mean crucifix, when really the term just means a suspension device, which might have been anything such as a "pole or a tree trunk." The earliest versions of the New Testament were written in Greek.
"If you chose to just read the text and ignore the art and theology, there is quite a small amount of information about the crucifixion. Jesus, the Bible says, carried something called a stauros out to Calvary. Everyone thought it meant cross, but it does not only mean cross. We cannot say every instance of this noun, stauros refers to a cross," Samuelsson said.
Suspension devices, basically tall polls or pikes, were routinely used in the ancient world, by the Romans and their contemporaries, both as execution devices and for displaying the bodies of executed criminals and enemies as a public warning.
Part of what tipped Samuelson off to the apparent mistranslation, were routine references to things like fruits and dead animals being "crucified" in ancient texts, when translating the word as "suspended" makes more sense.

For Samuelsson, a 44-year-old pastor who is completing his research at the University of Gothenburg, his faith leads him to believe in the tradition that Jesus was suspended on a cross.
However, he says, "We don't know how those wicked people next to him on the right and on the left, were executed. Or what the devices looked like for people the day before or the day after."
"I am not saying no 'crucifixions' took place I the ancient world. But we cannot find evidence of them in the ancient texts," he added.
Given that the Romans were careful record keepers who wrote detailed and gruesome histories about their military conquests and lengthy legal treatises, it is strange that they would not have written plainly about their execution methods, he explained.
Samuelson says the idea of suspension devices would have been understood in the ancient world and by the contemporaries of Jesus.
"If you were walking around Galilee and heard Jesus say he will be suspended in days. People would have an understanding of the kind of torture involved."
While the Gospels mention Jesus' suspension, none specify a cross, according to Samuelson. Furthermore, the passion is described differently in different Gospels and has been depicted in various ways throughout history.
"In the movie the 'Passion of Christ,' Jesus carries the whole cross on his back. In some scholarly works, he just carries the cross beam. Nails are not mentioned before the passion and only mentioned in one book after he is executed," he said.
Samuelson said he never expected the international reaction his thesis has already received. He originally printed just 200 copies that he thought would be read by family and friends. He said he hoped scholars would be intrigued by his work, but has been surprised by the worldwide attention.
"I'm just another boring pastor. I think Jesus is the son of God. I read the New Testament every day. I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. I keep telling people, this does not mean we have to tear down the crosses in all the churches."

[iris89]

Discourse on the Mystery of the Cross:

Many believe that Jesus died on a cross, but let's consider whether this is so or not. First let's look at the Koine Greek word that many English translators translate as cross as given in Strong's Concordance with
Hebrew and Greek Lexicon shows, with the word commonly translated cross #4716.

4716 staurov stauros stow-ros'

from the base of 2476; TDNT-7:572,1071; n m

AV-cross 28; 28

1) a cross
1a) a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves
1b) the crucifixion which Christ underwent 2 an upright "stake", esp. a pointed one, used as such in fences or palisades

4716. staurov stauros stow-ros'; from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specifically) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:-cross.

As can be seen, there is a translation problem here as the Koine Greek word staurov stauros stow-ros' actually means an upright "stake." But for a clearer understanding let's look at what scholars in this area have to say instead of leaning on our own understanding and/or preconceived concepts.

Hislop and Wilkinson have the following also: "Now, this Pagan symbol seems first to have crept into the Christian Church in Egypt, and generally into Africa. A statement of Tertullian, about the middle of the third century, shows how much, by that time, the Church of Carthage was infected with the old leaven. Egypt especially, which was never thoroughly evangelised, appears to have taken the lead in bringing in this Pagan symbol. The first form of that which is called the Christian Cross, found on Christian monuments there, is the unequivocal Pagan Tau, or Egyptian "Sign of life." Let the reader peruse the following statement of Sir G. Wilkinson: "A still more curious fact may be mentioned respecting this hieroglyphical character [the Tau], that the early Christians of Egypt adopted it in lieu of the cross, which was afterwards substituted for it, prefixing it to inscriptions in the same manner as the cross in later times. For, though Dr. Young had some scruples in believing the statement of Sir A. Edmonstone, that it holds that position in the sepulchres of the great Oasis, I can attest that such is the case, and that numerous inscriptions, headed by the Tau, are preserved to the present day on early Christian monuments." The drift of this statement is evidently this, that in Egypt the earliest form of that which has since been called the cross, was no other than the "Crux Ansata," or "Sign of life," borne by Osiris and all the Egyptian gods; that the ansa or "handle" was afterwards dispensed with, and that it became the simple Tau, or ordinary cross, as it appears at this day, and that the design of its first employment on the sepulchres, therefore, could have no reference to the crucifixion of the Nazarene, but was simply the result of the attachment to old and long-cherished Pagan symbols, which is always strong in those who, with the adoption of the Christian name and profession, are still, to a large extent, Pagan in heart and feeling. This, and this only, is the origin of the worship of the "cross." " [The Two Babylon's, by Reverend Alexander Hilsop]

The Cross and Crucifixion.
This Is Appendix 162 From The Companion Bible.
In the Greek New Testament two words are used for "the cross" on which the Lord was put to death.
1. The word stauros; which denotes an upright pole or stake, to which the crimminals were nailed for execution.
2. The xulon, which generally denotes a piece of a dead log of wood, or timber, for fuel or for any other purpose. Is is not like dendron, which is used of a living, or green tree, as in Matthew 21:8; Revelation 7:1, 3; 8:7; 9:4, etc.
As this latter word xulon is used for the former stauros, it shows us that the meaning of each is exactly the same.
The verb stauroõ means to drive stakes.1
Our English word "cross" is the translation of the Latin crux; but the Greek stauros no more means a crux than the word "stick" means a "crutch".
Homer uses the word stauros of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber.2 And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.3
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word xulon (No. 2, above) in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered "tree" in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29. Galatians 3:13. 1 Peter 2:24. This is preserved in our old English name rood, or rod. See the Encycl. Brit., 11th (Camb.) ed., volume 7, page 505d.
There is nothing in the Greek of the New Testament even to imply two pieces of timber.
The letter chi, , the initial of the word Christ , was originally used for His Name; or . This was superseded by symbols and , and even the first of these had four equal arms.
These crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian sun-god, , and are first seen on a coin of Julius Cæsar, 100 - 44 B.C., and then on a coin struck by Cæsar's heir (Augustus), 20 B.C.4
On the coins of Constantine the most frequent symbol is ; but the same symbol is used without the surrounding circle, and with the four equal arms vertical and horizontal; and this was the symbol specially venerated as the "Solar Wheel". It should be stated that Constantine was a sun-god worshipper, and would not enter the "Church" till some quarter of a century after the legend of his having seen such a cross in the heavens (EUSEBIUS, Vit. Const. I. 37).
The evidence is the same as to the pre-Christian (phallic) symbol in Asia, Africa, and Egypt, whether we consult Nineveh by Sir A. H. LAYARD (ii 213), or Manners and Customs of the Ancient Egyptians, by Sir J. GARDNER WILKINSON, iii. pages 24, 26, 43, 44, 46, 52, 82, 136.
Dr. SCHLIEMANN gives the same evidence in his Ilios (1880), recording his discoveries on the site of prehistoric Troy. See pages 337, 350, 353, 521, 523.
Dr. MAX OHNEFALSCH - RICHTER gives the same evidence from Cyprus; and these are "the oldest extant Phoenician inscriptions"; see his Kypros, the Bible, and Homer : Oriental Civilisation, Art, and Religion in Ancient Times, Plates XIX, XXV, XXVI, XXX, XXXI, XXXII, XL, LVIII, LXIX, etc.
The Catacombs in Rome bear the same testimony : "Christ" is never represented there as "hanging on a cross", and the cross itself is only pourtrayed in a veiled and hesitating manner. In the Egyptian churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life, borrowed by the Christians, and interpreted in the pagan manner. See the Encycl. Brit., 11th (Camb.) ed., volume 14, page 273.
In his Letter from Rome Dean Burgon says : "I question whether a cross occurs on any Christian monument of the first four centuries".
In Mrs. Jameson's famous History of our Lord as Exemplified in Works of Art, she says (volume ii, page 315) : "It must be owned that ancient objects of art, as far as hitherto known, afford no corroboration of the use of the cross in the simple transverse form familiar to us, at any period preceding, or even closely succeeding, the time of Chrysostom"; and Chrysostom wrote half a century after Constantine!
"The Invention of the Cross" by Helena the mother of Constantine (in 326), though it means her finding of the cross, may or may not be true; but the "invention" of it in pre-Christian times, and the "invention" of its use in later times, are truths of which we need to be reminded in the present day. The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake, and not on two piece of timber placed at any angle.
NOTES
1 There are two compounds of it used : sustauroo - to put any one thus to death with another (Matthew 27:44. Mark 15:32. John 19:32. Romans 6:6. Galatians 2:20); and anastauroo - to rise up and fix upon the stake again (Hebrews 6:6). Another word used is equally significant : prospegnumi - to fix or fasten anything (Acts 2:23).
2 Iliad xxiv. 453. Odyssey xiv. 11.
3 For example, Thucydides iv. 90. Xenophon, Anabasis v. 2. 21.
4 Other coins with this symbol were struck by Augustus, also by Hadrian and other Roman emperors. See Early Christian Numismatics, by C. W. King, M.A.
[http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app162.html]

"THE sign of the cross has been a symbol of great antiquity, present in nearly every known culture. Its meaning has eluded anthropologists, though its use in funerary art could well point to a defense against evil. On the other hand, the famous crux ansata of Egypt, depicted coming from the mouth, must refer to life or breath. The universal use of the sign of the cross makes more poignant the striking lack of crosses in early Christian remains, especially any specific reference to the event on Golgotha. Most scholars now agree that the cross, as an artistic reference to the passion event, cannot be found prior to the time of Constantine." [Ante Pacem-Archaeological Evidence of Church Life Before Constantine (1985), by Professor Graydon F. Snyder, page 27]

The Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M'Clintock and Strong, comments:
'Much time and trouble have been wasted in disputing as to whether three or four nails were used in fastening the Lord. Nonnus affirms that three only were used, in which he is followed by Gregory Nazianzen. The more general belief gives four nails, an opinion which is supported at much length and by curious arguments by Curtius. Others have carried the number of nails as high as fourteen.'- [The Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, by M'Clintock and Strong, Volume II, page 580]

"It is strange, yet unquestionably a fact, that in ages long before the birth of Christ, and since then in lands untouched by the teaching of the Church, the Cross has been used as a sacred symbol. . . . The Greek Bacchus, the Tyrian Tammuz, the Chaldean Bel, and the Norse Odin, were all symbolized to their votaries by a cruciform device." [The Cross in Ritual, Architecture, and Art (London, 1900), G. S. Tyack, p. 1. ]

"The shape of the [two-beamed cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ." [n Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (London, 1962), W. E. Vine, p. 256.]

I believe the ANK may have been a form of cross, from the Egyption period. I would need to do some research to back this up, this is just a knee-jerk response to this post. Paul --- Mark McFall <[e-mail]> wrote: > Heinz (quoting 21st Century NT appendix) > > Christians are sometimes disturbed to learn that > the cross, > > considered for centuries as a Christian symbol, > had its origin long > > before Christ and was actually used in pagan > mythology.It was the > > symbol of the god Tammuz, and Bacchus, and the > Egyptian Osiris. > > Mac: Hey Heinz, I've read and heard similar comments > before. However, in > regards to Osiris, I have never come across > something that suggests that > the ancient Egyptians identified a cross with > Osiris. I've read quite a > bit from _The Book of the Dead_ and other primary > Egyptian texts (by > means of translations of course), but I haven't > found anything that > would hint at that beyond what I read from lazy > scholars like Feke and > Gandy. [Heinz Schmidt, Bible Scholar]

The concept of a cross as an item of veneration is admittedly pagan, "At successive periods this was modified, becoming curved at the extremities, or adding to them more complex lines or ornamental points, which latter also meet at the central intersection. The swastika is a sacred sign in India, and is very ancient and widespread throughout the East. It has a solemn meaning among both Brahmins and Buddhists, though the elder Burnouf ("Le lotus de la bonne loi, traduit du sanscrit", p. 625; Journ. Asiatic Soc. of Great Britain, VI, 454) believes it more common among the latter than among the former. It seems to have represented the apparatus used at one time by the fathers of the human race in kindling fire; and for this reason it was the symbol of living flame, of sacred fire, whose mother is Maia, the personification of productive power (Burnouf, La science des religions). It is also, according to Milani, a symbol of the sun (Bertrand, La religion des Gaulois, p. 159), and seems to denote its daily rotation. Others have seen in it the mystic representation of lightning or of the god of the tempest, and even the emblem of the Aryan pantheon and the primitive Aryan civilization. Emile Burnouf (op. cit., p. 625), taking the Sanskrit word literally, divided it into the particles su-asti-ka, equivalents of the Greek eu-estike. In this way, especially through the adverbial particle, it would mean "sign of benediction", or "of good omen" (svasti), also "of health" or "life". The particle ka seems to have been used in a causative sense (Burnouf, Dictionnaire sanscrit-français, 1866). The swastika sign was very widespread throughout the Orient, the seat of the oldest civilizations. The Buddhist inscriptions carved in certain caves of Western India are usually preceded or closed by this sacred sign (Thomas Edward, "The Indian Swastika", 1880; Philip Greg, "On the Meaning and Origin of the Fylfot and Swastika"). The celebrated excavations of Schliemann at Hissarlik on the site of ancient Troy brought to light numerous examples of the swastika: on spindle-racks, on a cube, sometimes attached to an animal, and even cut upon the womb of a female idol, a detail also noticeable on a small statue of the goddess Athis. The swastika sign is seen on Hittite monuments, e.g. on a cylinder ("The monuments of the Hittites" in "Transactions of the Soc. of Bibl. Archæology", VII, 2, p. 259. For its presence on Galatian and Bithynian monuments, see Guillaume and Perrot, "Exploration archéologique de la Galatie et de la Bithynie", Atlas, Pl. IX). We find it also on the coins of Lycia and of Gaza in Palestine. In the Island of Cyprus it is found on earthenware vessels. It originally represents, as again at Athens and Mycenæ, a flying bird. In Greece we have specimens of it on urns and vases of Botia, on an Attic vase representing a Gorgon, on coins of Corinth (Raoul-Rochette, "Mém. de l'acad. des inscr.", XVI, pt. II, 302 sqq.; "Hercule assyrien", 377-380; Minervini in "Bull. arch. Napolit.", Ser. 2, II, 178-179), and in the treasury of Orchomenus. It seems to have been unknown in Assyria, in Phnicia, and in Egypt. In the West it is most frequently found in Etruria. It appears on a cinerary urn of Chiusi, and on the fibula found in the famous Etruscan tomb at Cere (Grifi, Mon. di Cere, Pl. VI, no. 1). There are many such emblems on the urns found at Capanna di Corneto, Bolsena, and Vetulonia; also in a Samnite tomb at Capua, where it appears in the centre of the tunic of the person there depicted (Minervini, Bull. arch. Napolit., ser. 2, Pl. II, 178-179) This sign is also found in Pompeian mosaics, on Italo-Grecian vases, on coins of Syracuse in Sicily (Raoul-Rochette, "Mém. de l'acad. des inscr." Pl. XVI, pt. II, 302 sqq.; Minervini, "Bull. arch. Nap.", ser. 2, Pl. II, p. 178-179); finally among the ancient Germans, on a rock-carving in Sweden, on a few Celtic stones in Scotland, and on a Celtic stone discovered in the County of Norfolk, England, and now in the British Museum. The swastika, appears in an epitaph on a pagan tombstone of Tebessa in Roman Africa (Annuaire de la Société de Constantine, 1858-59, 205, 87), on a mosaic of the ignispicium (Ennio Quirino Visconti, Opere varie, ed. Milan, I, 141, sqq.), and in a Greek votive inscription at Porto. In the last monument the swastika is imperfect in form, and resembles a Phnician letter. We shall explain below the value and symbolical meaning of this crux gammata when found on Christian monuments. But the swastika is not the only sign of this kind known to antiquity. Cruciform objects have been found in Assyria. The statutes of Kings Asurnazirpal and Sansirauman, now in the British Museum, have cruciform jewels about the neck (Layard, Monuments of Nineveh, II, pl. IV). Cruciform earrings were found by Father Delattre in Punic tombs at Carthage. [The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume IV, Imprimatur. +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York]

The Scriptures, by the Institute for Scripture Research, also uses the term "impale" (it also uses "stake"), but the 21st Century NT ignores the term. The Jewish NT has "execute him on a stake." The term "impale" may not be the best rendering here for an English reader, but it can have the meaning other than something being thrust thru. Consider Esther 9:13: "have the bodies of Haman's ten sons hung from the gallows." GNB However, the New Jewish Publication Society has: "let Haman's ten sons be impaled on the stake." [comments by Bible scholars and the New Jewish Publication Society]


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Your Friend in Christ Iris89

[iris89]

Here is an interesting item from an ABC news show:

Jesus Christ May Not Have Died on Cross
No Evidence in Ancient Sources Backs Up Defining Symbol of Christianity, Scholar Says, By RUSSELL GOLDMAN [source – retrieved from abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130&page=1 on 7/03/2010]

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For 2,000 years the crucifix has been a potent symbol of both Jesus Christ's death and Christianity. Now one Swedish theologian says that despite the crucifix's proliferation in art and literature, there is scant evidence in the Bible or other ancient sources to indicate that Christ was killed on a cross.

Gunnar Samuelsson, an evangelical preacher and theologian, says he spent three years combing thousands of ancient texts to research his recently completed 400-page doctoral thesis "Crucifixion in Antiquity."
What he discovered, he said, "came as a shock." While there were numerous references to "suspension devices" used for executions at the time of Christ's death, he could find no explicit references to the classic T-shaped cross.

"There is no distinct punishment called 'crucifixion,' no distinct punishment device called a 'crucifix' anywhere mentioned in any of the ancient texts including the Gospels," he told ABCNews.com.
Samuelsson devoutly believes the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, but says for generations people have misinterpreted and mistranslated the Greek word "stauros" to mean crucifix, when really the term just means a suspension device, which might have been anything such as a "pole or a tree trunk." The earliest versions of the New Testament were written in Greek.

"If you chose to just read the text and ignore the art and theology, there is quite a small amount of information about the crucifixion. Jesus, the Bible says, carried something called a stauros out to Calvary. Everyone thought it meant cross, but it does not only mean cross. We cannot say every instance of this noun, stauros refers to a cross," Samuelsson said.

Suspension devices, basically tall polls or pikes, were routinely used in the ancient world, by the Romans and their contemporaries, both as execution devices and for displaying the bodies of executed criminals and enemies as a public warning.
Part of what tipped Samuelson off to the apparent mistranslation, were routine references to things like fruits and dead animals being "crucified" in ancient texts, when translating the word as "suspended" makes more sense.

For Samuelsson, a 44-year-old pastor who is completing his research at the University of Gothenburg, his faith leads him to believe in the tradition that Jesus was suspended on a cross.
However, he says, "We don't know how those wicked people next to him on the right and on the left, were executed. Or what the devices looked like for people the day before or the day after."
"I am not saying no 'crucifixions' took place I the ancient world. But we cannot find evidence of them in the ancient texts," he added.

Given that the Romans were careful record keepers who wrote detailed and gruesome histories about their military conquests and lengthy legal treatises, it is strange that they would not have written plainly about their execution methods, he explained.
Samuelson says the idea of suspension devices would have been understood in the ancient world and by the contemporaries of Jesus.

"If you were walking around Galilee and heard Jesus say he will be suspended in days. People would have an understanding of the kind of torture involved."

While the Gospels mention Jesus' suspension, none specify a cross, according to Samuelson. Furthermore, the passion is described differently in different Gospels and has been depicted in various ways throughout history.
"In the movie the 'Passion of Christ,' Jesus carries the whole cross on his back. In some scholarly works, he just carries the cross beam. Nails are not mentioned before the passion and only mentioned in one book after he is executed," he said.

Samuelson said he never expected the international reaction his thesis has already received. He originally printed just 200 copies that he thought would be read by family and friends. He said he hoped scholars would be intrigued by his work, but has been surprised by the worldwide attention.

"I'm just another boring pastor. I think Jesus is the son of God. I read the New Testament every day. I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. I keep telling people, this does not mean we have to tear down the crosses in all the churches.