Post by iris89 on Dec 15, 2011 8:53:52 GMT -5
Muslims Do Not Comprehend The Bible:
INTRODUCTION:
Muslims clearly do not comprehend the Bible and see problems where there are none, and come to completely wrong conclusions. This is strange given the fact that their holy book is actually a takeoff from the Bible. Let's look at a few instances where they utterly fail to comprehend, one of them in fact where their book is actually saying the same thing as the Bible in different words.
LUKE 1:35 VS. SURA 3:47:
Let's first look at what the Quran (Koran) says at Sura 3:47:
Sura 3:47, "She said, "My Lord, how can I have a son, when no man has touched me?" He said, "GOD thus creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He simply says to it, `Be,' and it is."
And, Sura 3:48 says, ""He will teach him the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel." Interestingly here the Quran (Koran) actually speaks of the first five (5) books of the Bible, the Torah; yet today many Muslims rail against the Bible from which their book the Quran (Koran) was plagiarized from.
Now the Bible says at Luke 1:35, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God." (American Standard Version; ASV).
Interestingly although both the Quran's (Koran's) 'Be' and the Bible's (in some translations only) overshadow both refer to exactly the same thing, but use different words, some Muslims do not comprehend this and think overshadow has bad connotations. Both these passages refer to God's (YHWH) using his active force or power referred to in the Bible as Spirit or Holy Spirit to implant the life force of his only begotten Son, that we know as Jesus (Yeshua) into the womb of the virgin Mary as recorded in Matthew 1:18-25, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us. 24 And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife; 25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS." (ASV). Now some may not understand just what this force or power of God (YHWH) is so here is a brief explanation.
A brief consideration on and reasoning on Acts 10:19-20; Acts 16:6; Acts 13:2-4; Acts 15:28; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:26; Ephesians 4:30; and 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 will show that the Spirit or Holy Spirit is God's (YHWH's) active force or power and emanates from him and is a force completely controlled by him, and is capable of giving him feedback and gathering for him information.
But first let's see why the Spirit is indeed God's (YHWH's) active force or power from an understanding of the ancient word 'pneu'ma' translated Spirit or Holy Spirit in English. The neuter Koine Greek word for spirit (pneu'ma) is used with the neuter pronoun "it" since it is lacks gender. This fact is conveniently over looked or hidden by most Trinitarian translators of the Bible as admitted in the "New American Bible Catholic Bible," regarding John 14:17: "The Greek word for 'Spirit' is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English ('he,' 'his,' 'him'), most Greek MSS [manuscripts] employ 'it.'" So when the Bible uses masculine personal pronouns in connection with pa•ra'kle•tos at John 16:7, 8, it is conforming to rules of grammar, not expressing a doctrine. And in Ancient Hebrew the word here rendered Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, or Spirit which is translated from 'ru'ach' meaning "breath; wind; spirit." In Latin, it is spiritus, and in Sanskrit, 'prana' which means both "breath" and "spirit." And the pertinent definition in the Funk & Wagnalls Standard College Dictionary (ISBN 0-308-10309-2 and 0-308-10310-6) clearly states, (4) <Often Cap.> In the Bible, the creative, animating power or divine influence of God...[etymology-[<Old French, 'espirit' <Latin, 'spiritus' bredth, spirit <'spirare' to breathe]. So we can see it, the Holy Spirit or Spirit is truly God's (YHWH's) active force or power and not a spirit being as are Almighty God (YHWH) and his Son, Jesus (Yeshua). This point is very well made in the New International Version at Luke 1:35, "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[1] the Son of God." (The New International Version; NIV). Sure shows that the Holy Spirit is nothing but God's (YHWH's) active force.
Now from the study of science and technology we know that with respect a force there can be four possibilities or possibly five applicable questions, which are as follows:
(1) Is it an uncontrolled force?
(2) Is it a controlled force?
(3) Is it controlled, but without feedback?
(4) Is it controlled, but with feedback?
Is it direct or indirect feedback?
However 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 shows it to be a controlled force with feedback that appears to be direct feedback, "But unto us God revealed [them] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God. 12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God." (American Standard Version; ASV), clearly showing that the "spirit which is from God," and God "revealed [them] through the Spirit," and uses it to search all things, thus showing it is a controlled spirit capable of feedback. God (YHWH) has complete control over his power or force and can choose its fields of operations as testified to at Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (ASV) clearly showing he can use to lead individuals and that it belongs to him. And John 16:13 clearly shows it as a force, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come." Since it is quite clear that it is a controlled force, "shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak,"
Clearly it is a controlled force used by God (YHWH) to do many things as testified to at Acts 10:19-20, "While Peter was meditationg on the vision, the Spirit said to him, 'There are two men looking for you. 20 Get up and go down, and without hesitation go on with them, for I have sent them.'" (The New Testament by Charles B. Williams); And the fact that it is a closely controlled force is further affirmed at Acts 16:6, "And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction. And these six brethren also accompanied me; and we entered into the man's house:" (ASV); And at Acts 13:2-4, "And as they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus." (ASV); And at Acts 15:28, "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:" (ASV) clearly indicating direct feedback to and response by God (YHWH); which is further shown by Ephesians 4:30, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption" (ASV) which once more indicates that is gives direct feedback and it reacts to the feelings of God (YHWH) from which it emanates thus a tightly controlled force or power.
Thus we can see and have an accurate understanding of what is being spoken of in both the Quran (Koran) and the Bible and see that it is exactly the same event and/or occurrence.
This is further emphasized by John 14:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Jesus (Yeshua) spoke of the holy spirit as a "helper," and he said it would teach, guide, and speak as recorded at John 14:16-17, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." (AV). And this same thought is carried at John 16:13, ""Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." (AV). The Greek word he used for helper (pa•ra'kle•tos) is in the masculine gender. Thus, when Jesus referred to what the helper would do, he used masculine personal pronouns as shown at John 16:7- 8, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." (AV). On the other hand, when the neuter Greek word for spirit (pneu'ma) is used, the neuter pronoun "it" is properly employed. This fact is conveniently over looked or hidden by most Trinitarian translators as admitted in the "New American Bible Catholic Bible," regarding John 14:17: "The Greek word for 'Spirit' is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English ('he,' 'his,' 'him'), most Greek MSS [manuscripts] employ 'it.'" So when the Bible uses masculine personal pronouns in connection with pa•ra'kle•tos at John 16:7, 8, it is conforming to rules of grammar, not expressing a doctrine.
Hence as can readily be seen, neither the Jews nor the early Christians viewed the holy spirit as part of a Trinity. That teaching came centuries later. As "A Catholic Dictionary," notes: "The third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362 . . . and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381." Interestingly this being approximately three and a half centuries after holy spirit filled the disciples at Pentecost! No, the holy spirit is not a person and it is not part of a Trinity. The holy spirit is God's active force that he uses to accomplish his will. It is not equal to God but is always at his disposition and subordinate to him as clearly shown by scripture and by historical reference.
The doctrine of the Trinity was hotly debated in the 4th century and is man made. When Luther blew the lid off the RCC that salvation is by faith and not by works, he didn't go far enough to eradicate the doctrine of the Trinity as well. But the mainstream churches still staunchly support it, rather than giving far more credence to what the scriptures teach us - than from what has come out of man made creeds. This false doctrine is shown false by among other things the fact that the Holy Spirit is nowhere in the Bible ever depicted as a person - but rather as a dove, John.1:32, "And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him." (AV), as a big wind and forked tongued flame at Acts 2:1-4, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (AV).
SOME OTHER MISCONCEPTIONS BY MUSLIMS THAT ARE NOT VALID:
Some Muslims have other equally invalid misconceptions. Let's deal with a couple of these to give examples of their failure to comprehend what the Bible is saying.
First Example:
"(1) Who wrote those words? Jesus? God? Or some third observer that we don't even know who he is. It is neither, God, Jesus nore the names associated in the Bible to these gospels since they themselves are spoken of in third person."
Reality with respect an invalid objection of Muslims:
As can be seen, many Muslims are obviously ignorant of the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman or plagiarist as was the case with respect the Quran (Koran). It has written by over 40 individual writers who used their own words, the words of men to express the thoughts of God (YHWH) that they received by inspiration. In other words, these men were not authors of what they wrote, but simply scribes who put the thoughts of God (YHWH) they received by inspiration into the words of men.
Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim.
Even Jesus (Yeshua) acknowledged that the words he spoke and that the Apostles and Disciples of his who wrote the New or Greek Testament under inspiration recorded as scribes were not his own, but those of his Father, Almighty God (YHWH). This is clearly shown at John 14:23-24, " Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me." (ASV).
Second example:
"(2) Why does the Bible lie when God had sons by the tons according to the Bible, yet you make him his "only" son."
Reality with respect an invalid objection of Muslims:
The fact is God (YHWH) created, the angels and mankind can rightly be called sons and daughters of God (YHWH), but Jesus (Yeshua) was the only begotten and/or first of his creation as clearly testified to at Colossians 1:15, "who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; " (ASV). Also, in posing such an invalid objection they are falsely accusing God (YHWH) of having inspired men write lies as God (YHWH) does not lie. Now this is absolutely wrong.
THEIR DYSFUNCTION:
Their comments on the virgin birth of Jesus (Yeshua) clearly recorded in both the Bible and the Quran (Koran) Clearly shows they fail absolutely to comprehend the Bible any more than the eunuch at Acts 8:26-39, "But an angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza: the same is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasure, who had come to Jerusalem to worship; 28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 And the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some one shall guide me? And he besought Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before his shearer is dumb, So he openeth not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: His generation who shall declare? For his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other? 35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 [And Philip said, If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.] 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing." (American Standard Version; ASV).
However, unlike the eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, they fail to recognize that they do NOT COMPREHEND what they read in the Bible.
Now to know the truth, go to:
1) religioustruths.yuku.com/
2) www.network54.com/Forum/403209/
3) religioustruths.lefora.com/
If you wish more information and/or wish to ask a question or what ever, contact me by leaving a PM (personal message) at religioustruths.yuku.com/
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth."Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today!
INTRODUCTION:
Muslims clearly do not comprehend the Bible and see problems where there are none, and come to completely wrong conclusions. This is strange given the fact that their holy book is actually a takeoff from the Bible. Let's look at a few instances where they utterly fail to comprehend, one of them in fact where their book is actually saying the same thing as the Bible in different words.
LUKE 1:35 VS. SURA 3:47:
Let's first look at what the Quran (Koran) says at Sura 3:47:
Sura 3:47, "She said, "My Lord, how can I have a son, when no man has touched me?" He said, "GOD thus creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He simply says to it, `Be,' and it is."
And, Sura 3:48 says, ""He will teach him the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel." Interestingly here the Quran (Koran) actually speaks of the first five (5) books of the Bible, the Torah; yet today many Muslims rail against the Bible from which their book the Quran (Koran) was plagiarized from.
Now the Bible says at Luke 1:35, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God." (American Standard Version; ASV).
Interestingly although both the Quran's (Koran's) 'Be' and the Bible's (in some translations only) overshadow both refer to exactly the same thing, but use different words, some Muslims do not comprehend this and think overshadow has bad connotations. Both these passages refer to God's (YHWH) using his active force or power referred to in the Bible as Spirit or Holy Spirit to implant the life force of his only begotten Son, that we know as Jesus (Yeshua) into the womb of the virgin Mary as recorded in Matthew 1:18-25, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us. 24 And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took unto him his wife; 25 and knew her not till she had brought forth a son: and he called his name JESUS." (ASV). Now some may not understand just what this force or power of God (YHWH) is so here is a brief explanation.
A brief consideration on and reasoning on Acts 10:19-20; Acts 16:6; Acts 13:2-4; Acts 15:28; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:26; Ephesians 4:30; and 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 will show that the Spirit or Holy Spirit is God's (YHWH's) active force or power and emanates from him and is a force completely controlled by him, and is capable of giving him feedback and gathering for him information.
But first let's see why the Spirit is indeed God's (YHWH's) active force or power from an understanding of the ancient word 'pneu'ma' translated Spirit or Holy Spirit in English. The neuter Koine Greek word for spirit (pneu'ma) is used with the neuter pronoun "it" since it is lacks gender. This fact is conveniently over looked or hidden by most Trinitarian translators of the Bible as admitted in the "New American Bible Catholic Bible," regarding John 14:17: "The Greek word for 'Spirit' is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English ('he,' 'his,' 'him'), most Greek MSS [manuscripts] employ 'it.'" So when the Bible uses masculine personal pronouns in connection with pa•ra'kle•tos at John 16:7, 8, it is conforming to rules of grammar, not expressing a doctrine. And in Ancient Hebrew the word here rendered Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit, or Spirit which is translated from 'ru'ach' meaning "breath; wind; spirit." In Latin, it is spiritus, and in Sanskrit, 'prana' which means both "breath" and "spirit." And the pertinent definition in the Funk & Wagnalls Standard College Dictionary (ISBN 0-308-10309-2 and 0-308-10310-6) clearly states, (4) <Often Cap.> In the Bible, the creative, animating power or divine influence of God...[etymology-[<Old French, 'espirit' <Latin, 'spiritus' bredth, spirit <'spirare' to breathe]. So we can see it, the Holy Spirit or Spirit is truly God's (YHWH's) active force or power and not a spirit being as are Almighty God (YHWH) and his Son, Jesus (Yeshua). This point is very well made in the New International Version at Luke 1:35, "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[1] the Son of God." (The New International Version; NIV). Sure shows that the Holy Spirit is nothing but God's (YHWH's) active force.
Now from the study of science and technology we know that with respect a force there can be four possibilities or possibly five applicable questions, which are as follows:
(1) Is it an uncontrolled force?
(2) Is it a controlled force?
(3) Is it controlled, but without feedback?
(4) Is it controlled, but with feedback?
Is it direct or indirect feedback?
However 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 shows it to be a controlled force with feedback that appears to be direct feedback, "But unto us God revealed [them] through the Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God. 12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God." (American Standard Version; ASV), clearly showing that the "spirit which is from God," and God "revealed [them] through the Spirit," and uses it to search all things, thus showing it is a controlled spirit capable of feedback. God (YHWH) has complete control over his power or force and can choose its fields of operations as testified to at Romans 8:14, "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (ASV) clearly showing he can use to lead individuals and that it belongs to him. And John 16:13 clearly shows it as a force, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come." Since it is quite clear that it is a controlled force, "shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak,"
Clearly it is a controlled force used by God (YHWH) to do many things as testified to at Acts 10:19-20, "While Peter was meditationg on the vision, the Spirit said to him, 'There are two men looking for you. 20 Get up and go down, and without hesitation go on with them, for I have sent them.'" (The New Testament by Charles B. Williams); And the fact that it is a closely controlled force is further affirmed at Acts 16:6, "And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction. And these six brethren also accompanied me; and we entered into the man's house:" (ASV); And at Acts 13:2-4, "And as they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus." (ASV); And at Acts 15:28, "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:" (ASV) clearly indicating direct feedback to and response by God (YHWH); which is further shown by Ephesians 4:30, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, in whom ye were sealed unto the day of redemption" (ASV) which once more indicates that is gives direct feedback and it reacts to the feelings of God (YHWH) from which it emanates thus a tightly controlled force or power.
Thus we can see and have an accurate understanding of what is being spoken of in both the Quran (Koran) and the Bible and see that it is exactly the same event and/or occurrence.
This is further emphasized by John 14:26, "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Jesus (Yeshua) spoke of the holy spirit as a "helper," and he said it would teach, guide, and speak as recorded at John 14:16-17, "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." (AV). And this same thought is carried at John 16:13, ""Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." (AV). The Greek word he used for helper (pa•ra'kle•tos) is in the masculine gender. Thus, when Jesus referred to what the helper would do, he used masculine personal pronouns as shown at John 16:7- 8, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." (AV). On the other hand, when the neuter Greek word for spirit (pneu'ma) is used, the neuter pronoun "it" is properly employed. This fact is conveniently over looked or hidden by most Trinitarian translators as admitted in the "New American Bible Catholic Bible," regarding John 14:17: "The Greek word for 'Spirit' is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English ('he,' 'his,' 'him'), most Greek MSS [manuscripts] employ 'it.'" So when the Bible uses masculine personal pronouns in connection with pa•ra'kle•tos at John 16:7, 8, it is conforming to rules of grammar, not expressing a doctrine.
Hence as can readily be seen, neither the Jews nor the early Christians viewed the holy spirit as part of a Trinity. That teaching came centuries later. As "A Catholic Dictionary," notes: "The third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362 . . . and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381." Interestingly this being approximately three and a half centuries after holy spirit filled the disciples at Pentecost! No, the holy spirit is not a person and it is not part of a Trinity. The holy spirit is God's active force that he uses to accomplish his will. It is not equal to God but is always at his disposition and subordinate to him as clearly shown by scripture and by historical reference.
The doctrine of the Trinity was hotly debated in the 4th century and is man made. When Luther blew the lid off the RCC that salvation is by faith and not by works, he didn't go far enough to eradicate the doctrine of the Trinity as well. But the mainstream churches still staunchly support it, rather than giving far more credence to what the scriptures teach us - than from what has come out of man made creeds. This false doctrine is shown false by among other things the fact that the Holy Spirit is nowhere in the Bible ever depicted as a person - but rather as a dove, John.1:32, "And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him." (AV), as a big wind and forked tongued flame at Acts 2:1-4, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (AV).
SOME OTHER MISCONCEPTIONS BY MUSLIMS THAT ARE NOT VALID:
Some Muslims have other equally invalid misconceptions. Let's deal with a couple of these to give examples of their failure to comprehend what the Bible is saying.
First Example:
"(1) Who wrote those words? Jesus? God? Or some third observer that we don't even know who he is. It is neither, God, Jesus nore the names associated in the Bible to these gospels since they themselves are spoken of in third person."
Reality with respect an invalid objection of Muslims:
As can be seen, many Muslims are obviously ignorant of the fact that the Bible is NOT the product of one committee or strongman or plagiarist as was the case with respect the Quran (Koran). It has written by over 40 individual writers who used their own words, the words of men to express the thoughts of God (YHWH) that they received by inspiration. In other words, these men were not authors of what they wrote, but simply scribes who put the thoughts of God (YHWH) they received by inspiration into the words of men.
Not only that, all the other writers of later so called religious guidance books borrowed from it and made changes in accord with their strong man or so called prophet. Take the example of Joseph Smith who borrowed from it to write the Book of Mormon, but failed to give credit or source to the Bible and twisted some borrowed things into bizarre distortions. Other examples are of course the bizarre writings of David Koresh the Prophet of the Branch Dividians of Waco, Texas; and the Quran, and the Book of Wiccim.
Even Jesus (Yeshua) acknowledged that the words he spoke and that the Apostles and Disciples of his who wrote the New or Greek Testament under inspiration recorded as scribes were not his own, but those of his Father, Almighty God (YHWH). This is clearly shown at John 14:23-24, " Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me." (ASV).
Second example:
"(2) Why does the Bible lie when God had sons by the tons according to the Bible, yet you make him his "only" son."
Reality with respect an invalid objection of Muslims:
The fact is God (YHWH) created, the angels and mankind can rightly be called sons and daughters of God (YHWH), but Jesus (Yeshua) was the only begotten and/or first of his creation as clearly testified to at Colossians 1:15, "who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; " (ASV). Also, in posing such an invalid objection they are falsely accusing God (YHWH) of having inspired men write lies as God (YHWH) does not lie. Now this is absolutely wrong.
THEIR DYSFUNCTION:
Their comments on the virgin birth of Jesus (Yeshua) clearly recorded in both the Bible and the Quran (Koran) Clearly shows they fail absolutely to comprehend the Bible any more than the eunuch at Acts 8:26-39, "But an angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza: the same is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasure, who had come to Jerusalem to worship; 28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 And the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some one shall guide me? And he besought Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the passage of the Scripture which he was reading was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before his shearer is dumb, So he openeth not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: His generation who shall declare? For his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other? 35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture, preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 [And Philip said, If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.] 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. 39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing." (American Standard Version; ASV).
However, unlike the eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, they fail to recognize that they do NOT COMPREHEND what they read in the Bible.
Now to know the truth, go to:
1) religioustruths.yuku.com/
2) www.network54.com/Forum/403209/
3) religioustruths.lefora.com/
If you wish more information and/or wish to ask a question or what ever, contact me by leaving a PM (personal message) at religioustruths.yuku.com/
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth."Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today!